# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1161 "2014-04-07T16:45:34Z")
Given that the report smears both Kelly and Wildstein despite never having talked to either, I’d say the report is pretty suspect. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1162 "2014-04-07T16:52:37Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > “The whole of it?” What defendant wouldn’t want to be able to instigate their own investigation into the charges against them? Governors, by State law, can do that. Stop for a moment and answer your own question: _ **Why** _ do you think a governor would be glad of the opportunity to do, well, what Christie just did? :dubious: Why? > [@](#): > > What is in the GDC report that makes you want “handwave away” the entire report? The fact that it’s self-serving because of who did it, and the fact that it leaves out anything that Christie Staffer Kelly or Christie Crony Wildstein might have been able to contribute to it. In short, duh. > [@](#): > > If you actually want to get to the truth, I would assume “everyone” would look at ALL of the information that’s supplied And that’s what we have \*independent \*investigations for, like those that are being done. In short, duh. > [@](#): > > What stories, versions, and rumors are left that leads you to know Christie must have been involved in the Great NJ Lane Reassignment? When did I say I know that? I have always left the possibility, however slim, that he’s utterly fucking clueless, or perhaps willfully blind, to what his people do. There’s no getting around the problem that he’s put a lot of trust in people who’ve proven to be total assholes, and that that reflects very badly on his judgment and qualification for a position of public trust, I hope you can agree. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1163 "2014-04-07T16:52:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s the standard MO. He orders and internal investigation, finds nothing, and then attacks all other attempts to investigate. I don’t think that’s true. Can you cite specific examples? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1164 "2014-04-07T17:03:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What makes Christie unusual is that he’s actually admitting it, rather than crowing that his investigation cleared him and so STFU. Da fuq? [Here’s a video](http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/03/live_video_chris_christie_holds_first_news_conference_in_76_days.html) of the press conference where he does exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1165 "2014-04-07T17:05:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You are misinformed. The vast majority of groups targeted were conservative, and Cincinnati was not authorized to approve any of their applications until they were first sent to DC. Whereupon they were never acted on. They were authorized to deal with liberal applications on their own. > > So Cincinnati, who Lerner tried to throw under the bus, did exactly what they were supposed to do, and yes, did decline a few liberal applications. It was the DC counsel’s office that ordered that no conservative application be approved until it was sent to them. That’s clearly discriminatory. Specific cites please. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1166 "2014-04-07T17:08:35Z")
[A little factual background](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_scandal#Targeting_of_progressive_groups): > [@](#): > > On June 24, 2013, new IRS commissioner Danny Werfel revealed that an internal investigation had discovered that the targeting was both broader and longer-lasting than had previously been known. The report found that words such as “Israel”, “progressive” and “Occupy” were also used as red-flags for greater scrutiny, and that screeners were still using such lists up until May 2013.[9] A spokesman for the Inspector General’s office in charge of the IRS audit said they had been asked by House Oversight Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) “to narrowly focus on Tea Party organizations”. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1167 "2014-04-07T17:12:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Stop for a moment and answer your own question: _ **Why** _ do you think a governor would be glad of the opportunity to do, well, what Christie just did? :dubious: Why? > > The fact that it’s self-serving because of who did it, and the fact that it leaves out anything that Christie Staffer Kelly or Christie Crony Wildstein might have been able to contribute to it. In short, duh. > > And that’s what we have \*independent \*investigations for, like those that are being done. In short, duh. > > When did I say I know that? I have always left the possibility, however slim, that he’s utterly fucking clueless, or perhaps willfully blind, to what his people do. There’s no getting around the problem that he’s put a lot of trust in people who’ve proven to be total assholes, and that that reflects very badly on his judgment and qualification for a position of public trust, I hope you can agree. Why do you think state laws were created to allow governors to instigate their own investigations? Could it be to prevent some political witch hunt from screwing with the current government? Christie’s generation of governors didn’t create these laws. Of course the findings are suspect if taken by itself. However, there are other sources that suggest that Zimmer is full of shit. Plus Kelly, Port Authority Wildstein and Baroni haven’t been forthcoming with any investigation to date. Are you suggesting that those investigations should be handwaved away also? Or only if they can’t prove that Christie guilty. What “possibility, however slim”, exists that Christie was actually involved in the Great NJ Lane Reassignment? Have you read the GDC report or have you decided to dismiss it because it’s findings don’t agree with your preconceived notions? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1168 "2014-04-07T17:19:40Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Why do you think state laws were created to allow governors to instigate their own investigations? I asked you why you claim a governor should be happy to have that power. Whaddaya got? > [@](#): > > Could it be to prevent some political witch hunt from screwing with the current government? Christie’s generation of governors didn’t create these laws. Please note that nothing he’s done has, or could, forestall any independent investigation. > [@](#): > > Of course the findings are suspect if taken by itself. Waiter, the check please? > [@](#): > > Plus Kelly, Port Authority Wildstein and Baroni haven’t been forthcoming with any investigation to date. The \*federal criminal investigation \*underway has not released any interim developments, nor can nor should it. Christie Deputy COS Kelly and Christie Crony Wildstein (you really need to stop that PA handwaving; it only makes you look silly) have no reason to talk to anyone else. > [@](#): > > What “possibility, however slim”, exists that Christie was actually involved in the Great NJ Lane Reassignment? Really? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1169 "2014-04-07T20:15:18Z")
Possibly not. Like I said, it could be a scheme by this Samson fellow to funnel more revenue into his law firm. Make the investors of that development in Fort Lee a bit nervous about losing their number one selling point, access to New York. In that scenario, he conveys his own wishes to the underlings and hints/suggests that he is speaking on behalf of Christie, that Christie would look with favor on their efforts but doesn’t want his fingerprints on it. Selling it as “political hardball”, getting local mayors in line and on board. Now, what I’d like to think would happen is that the aformentioned minions would go straight to Christie himself, shocked, shocked at such a suggestion. Because Christie is such a straight shooter, by the book kind of guy, they don’t believe what Samson is selling. Tenuous, shaky, to be sure. But it is a scenario by which Christie has no foreknowledge or direct involvement. But it depends on his minions believing, without serious question, that this is the sort of thing Christie would approve of. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1170 "2014-04-07T21:12:10Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I asked you why you claim a governor should be happy to have that power. Whaddaya got?Please note that nothing he’s done has, or could, forestall any independent investigation. > > Waiter, the check please? > The \*federal criminal investigation \*underway has not released any interim developments, nor can nor should it. Christie Deputy COS Kelly and Christie Crony Wildstein (you really need to stop that PA handwaving; it only makes you look silly) have no reason to talk to anyone else. > > Really? 😃 A defendant, any defendant, would be giddy to have the ability to authorise an investigation into any charges against themselves. Governors have that ability and Christie took advantage of that option. It gives the defendant an idea as to what the prosecution is attempting to prove. It could/might/maybe also give an innocent defendant a chance to prove their innocence. All findings in any political pissing match are suspect of bias if taken by itself. When other investigations reported the same findings, that makes the GDC report a bit more credible. If you’d bother to read it. Hahahaha. _PA handwaving_? What’s that??? You find Christie Crony Wildstein to be an acceptable term but object to my use of Port Authority Wildstein. I don’t object to your choices and don’t really care if you object to mine. Port Authority Wildstein describes him perfectly. Really! What “possibility, however slim”, exists that Christie was actually involved in the Great NJ Lane Reassignment? What rumor(s) are you still basing your probablity of Christie’s guilt, on? Put it into words. Let’s see what ya got. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1171 "2014-04-07T21:47:50Z")
From today’s [Esquire](http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/wildstein-christie-feds) > [@](#): > > Bad news for Chris Christie – and very good news for the citizens of New Jersey: Esquire has learned from sources close to the investigation that David Wildstein, the former Port Authority operative who helped plan and execute the Great Fort Lee Clusterfk, is now cooperating with Paul Fishman, the federal prosecutor investigating the soon-to-be-ex-governor and his minions for criminal conduct. Fishman has also increased the number of investigators at work on the case, and has begun presenting evidence and witnesses to a grand jury in Newark. and > [@](#): > > The report in its entirety is a steaming pile of crap, a classic Christie smear job, designed to reach the only result that might spare his political life: Christie knew nothing. > > Chris Christie’s White House fever dream died at his January press conference, where he spent two hours wallowing in self-pity over how his aides had deceived him. Now that David Wildstein’s talking, his days as governor are numbered – in weeks and months, not years. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1172 "2014-04-07T22:04:46Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > It gives the defendant an idea as to what the prosecution is attempting to prove. Nah. At best that would just be guess work. > [@](#): > > It could/might/maybe also give an innocent defendant a chance to prove their innocence. That’s not for the defendant to decide, now is it? > [@](#): > > Hahahaha. _PA handwaving_? What’s that??? You find Christie Crony Wildstein to be an acceptable term but object to my use of Port Authority Wildstein. It’'s the more accurate appellation, as has been explained to you repeatedly here. > [@](#): > > Port Authority Wildstein describes him perfectly. Except for the part about why he was there and who he really reported to. > [@](#): > > What rumor(s) are you still basing your probablity of Christie’s guilt, on? Put it into words. Let’s see what ya got. Scroll up and reread, the entire thread, as slowly as it takes. It’s all there, multiple times. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1173 "2014-04-07T22:05:56Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > From today’s [Esquire](http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/wildstein-christie-feds) Wildstein? Who’s \*he \*ratting out? It was all \*his \*idea, Christie had nothing to do with it, right, **doorhinge**? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1174 "2014-04-07T22:18:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Wildstein? Who’s \*he \*ratting out? It was all \*his \*idea, Christie had nothing to do with it, right, **doorhinge**? 😉 You forgot to call him\* Port Authority\* Wildstein. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1175 "2014-04-07T22:48:34Z")
Some related discussion here: [The Chris Christie Exoneration Tour.](http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/albany/2014/04/8542966/chris-christie-exoneration-tour?news-image) T-shirts on sale in the lobby, in whatever size you need. 😉 > [@](#): > > Which makes the P.R. game plan the governor is pursuing as he tries to navigate this mess very apparent: make sure that anything falling short of trouble with the U.S. attorney is seen as a reputation-clearing exoneration. > > Audacious? Yes. After all, in a best-case scenario in which the governor really didn’t know anything, he’s guilty of the worst kind of mismanagement and ineptitude—the kind you might think would disqualify him from running a country. But in a climate where things like charisma, persistence and narrative trajectory prevail, the governor is free to fill the media space with happy “developments” that show he’s moved on and everyone else should, too. > [@](#): > > Politico’s Maggie Haberman noted a fun detail, that “the governor’s aides deliberately picked two women to interview him back to back… to go for a softer tone.” > > Which, if it made sense with Sawyer, proved to be a downright brilliant decision when it came to Christie’s interview with Fox News’ Megyn Kelly. > > To get a sense of the flavor of the Kelly segment, the first question was: “This report has now come out and exonerates you completely. Do you feel exonerated?” > > This was preceded by a quick introduction by the anchor that said it “looks and sounds like the beginning of a comeback” and “an initial report has now cleared him of any wrongdoing.” 😉 But: > [@](#): > > An absence of hard evidence as to what he knew is significant if you accept Christie’s legalistic approach to a political problem, whereby he may somehow be shielded from responsibility for what his administration did if he, himself, avoids prosecution. > > Is it working? > > “At 715pm ET on @hardball,” Time’s Mark Halperin tweeted Friday night, “watch me assert that no one (except maybe @JebBush ) has a more obvious path to '16 GOP nod than Christie.” ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1176 "2014-04-07T22:50:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Nah. At best that would just be guess work. That’s not for the defendant to decide, now is it? > > It’'s the more accurate appellation, as has been explained to you repeatedly here. > > Except for the part about why he was there and who he really reported to. > > Scroll up and reread, the entire thread, as slowly as it takes. It’s all there, multiple times. - Guess work? The defendant’s lawyer would get a chance to question the same people that the prosecution’s lawyer is questioning. The defendant would have a better understanding of what the prosecution is attempting to prove. - Yes, it is for the defendant to decide. key words - “chance to prove”. - Hahaha. “More” accurate according to you. You can explain your reasoning as many times as you’d like but Port Authority Wildstein is still an accurate description. I’m not demanding that you use the term and I reject your attempt to dictate what I can write. - I’d like to hear what you are currently basing your probability of Christie’s guilt, on? Put it into words. Let’s see what ya got. Are you still clinging to Mayor Zimmer’s stories? Perhaps you’re still clinging to the unverified rumor that Christie wanted to punish Sokolich for some reason? The three unverified rumors that attempted to prove the unverified rumor that Christie wanted to punish Sokolich for some reason? Carl Lewis? Magic 8-ball? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1177 "2014-04-07T22:55:05Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > - Guess work? The defendant’s lawyer would get a chance to question the same people that the prosecution’s lawyer is questioning. The defendant would have a better understanding of what the prosecution is attempting to prove. Yeah, right. Is there any reason to believe that’s what Christie was doing? > [@](#): > > - Yes, it is for the defendant to decide. key words - “chance to prove”. But wait, it gets better - a defendant gets to run his own investigation! > [@](#): > > - Hahaha. “More” accurate according to you. You know why Wildstein was at the Authority, who put him there, and who he reported to. It’s been explained to you over and over. Them’s the facts, bub. “Christie Crony Wildstein” is indeed the most accurate appelation. > [@](#): > > I reject your attempt to dictate what I can write. I’m not \*dictating \*what you write, I’m \*laughing \*at it. > [@](#): > > I’d like to hear what you are currently basing your probability of Christie’s guilt, on? I’m not repeating the entire thread for you. You obviously can read. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1178 "2014-04-07T23:00:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Some related discussion here: [The Chris Christie Exoneration Tour.](http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/albany/2014/04/8542966/chris-christie-exoneration-tour?news-image) > > T-shirts on sale in the lobby, in whatever size you need. 😉 > 😉 > > But: It seems they forgot to include actual proof that Christie was actually involved the Great NJ Lane Reassignment? Or has innocent until proven guilty been handwaved away in the interest of a political agenda? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1179 "2014-04-07T23:11:01Z")
The article was about his attempts at image management, not a sentencing memorandum. Perhaps you ought to have read it. IUPG is a procedural principle in a criminal court, \*not \*the court of public opinion and certainly not a political campaign, btw. Now: _Christie ain’t gonna be President_. It’s about time you recognized that, and understood the reasons, which do _not_ depend on the results of the still-ongoing federal criminal investigation. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1180 "2014-04-07T23:18:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yeah, right. Is there any reason to believe that’s what Christie was doing? > > But wait, it gets better - a defendant gets to run his own investigation! > > You know why Wildstein was at the Authority, who put him there, and who he reported to. It’s been explained to you over and over. Them’s the facts, bub. “Christie Crony Wildstein” is indeed the most accurate appelation. > > I’m not \*dictating \*what you write, I’m \*laughing \*at it. > > I’m not repeating the entire thread for you. You obviously can read. - I have no idea what Christies reasons were. You asked why a governor should be happy to have that power. I provided you with an answer. - I assume you’re assuming that Christie assumed command of that investigation. But what are you basing that assumption on? Something a blogger or media outlet suggested to you, perhaps? - Port Authority Wildstein reported to Port Authority Baroni. Port Authority Baroni requested Port Authority Wildstein and Christie OK’d it. - Cur-rent-ly. You don’t have to repeat the entire thread. I’d just like to know your current biases. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=60)