# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/101 "2014-01-10T03:05:40Z")
At least one FOX News contributor was complaining that the bridge story was hiding the REAL story - Roberts Gates’s criticisms of Obama and Biden. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/102 "2014-01-10T03:54:20Z")
Rachel Maddow has suggested a possible alternative motive (instead of the lack of an endorsement) for causing the traffic jam. I started a new thread about it. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17001125](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17001125) ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/103 "2014-01-10T04:37:15Z")
Rachel Maddow has uncovered an alternate motive for the lane closures: retaliation against legislative Democrats. Why? [ul] [li]Christie refused to renominate Associate Justice John Wallace, a Democrat, to the New Jersey Supreme Court. It was the first time in New Jersey’s history that a governor didn’t renominate a Supreme Court Justice regardless of party and regardless of by whom that Justice was nominated. Ever.[/li] [li]Why did he refuse to renominate him? He didn’t like the way the Court had ruled in several affordable housing cases, saying he believed the Court “overstepped its role.” “He made it clear that he intended to ‘reshape the court’ by appointing a conservative majority.”[/li] [li]The Democratic-led legislature then refused to confirm any of Christie’s nominees to refill that seat. They confirmed all of his nominees for every _other_ seat to every other court, but not that one.[/li] [li]Then another Supreme Court Justice came up for renomination: Associate Justice Helen Hoens, a Republican. The legislature informed him they would not be reconfirming her, either.[/li] [li]Christie called a press conference to announce that he would not be renominating Justice Hoens after all, because he refused to subject her to the “animals” in the legislature.[/li] [li]That press conference took place in the late afternoon of August 12, 2013.[/li][/ul] > [@](#): > > [Christie decides not to renominate Supreme Court Justice Hoens of Basking Ridge](http://newjerseyhills.com/bernardsville_news/news/christie-decides-not-to-renominate-supreme-court-justice-hoens-of/article_3a1af0c2-040a-11e3-a852-0019bb2963f4.html) > > **Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:21 am** > > Ralph J. Lamparello, president of the New Jersey State Bar Association, yesterday called upon Christie and Senate Democratic leaders “to end their war over our courts and to exercise their roles in the judicial appointment and reappointment process in the way the framers of our Constitution intended.” > > “Governor Christie has now twice broken with 60 years of tradition and ignored the clear intention of the framers of our 1947 Constitution to create a strong and independent judiciary,” Lamparello declared in a stern rebuke of Christie for declining to renominate Hoens. > > “Like Justice John Wallace before her, she [Hoens] has served honorably, evaluating each case based on the law and on the facts before her. Her opinions were thoughtful and well-reasoned, and she always conducted herself with the utmost professionalism. She does not deserve to be treated as a political pawn in the battle between the governor and the Legislature over our courts.” > > Lamparello added that “the rhetoric here smacks of political one-upsmanship – and will continue the slippery slope we began traveling when the governor made the then-unprecedented move of not renominating Justice Wallace for tenure in 2011. The result of today’s action will be further erosion of the independence of our courts.” > > Yesterday’s shocking chain of events was set in motion last month, **Christie said during yesterday’s Statehouse news conference** , when Sen. Raymond Lesniak (D-Union), a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee made a “very bold and arrogant announcement” about the upcoming confirmation battle over Hoens’ expected renomination. > > Lesniak told the Star-Ledger that “there has to be a price paid” for Christie’s refusal to renominate Wallace, the only African-American on the Supreme Court, and that Hoens, whose husband, former Star-Ledger reporter Robert Schwaneberg, works in Christie’s policy office, was the one who would pay it. > > “I told Justice Hoens this morning I’m not going to permit the political bent of the Democrats in the Senate to cast a pall on your otherwise outstanding judicial career,” Christie said, adding that Hoens took the decision “like a professional.” [ul] [li]The email from his deputy chief of staff that said it was “time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee” was [**date and time stamped August 13 at 7:34 a.m.**](http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/01/read_the_emails_between_christie.html)[/li] [li]The Democratic Senate Majority Leader Loretta Weinberg’s district? [Includes Fort Lee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/37th_Legislative_District_%28New_Jersey%29).[/li][/ul] I think she nailed it. This had nothing to do with a lack of endorsement by the mayor and everything to do with fucking with Senator Weinberg. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/104 "2014-01-10T06:01:21Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > If Wildstein took the fifth, then things could get a lot more interesting. He and others may go into cya mode and start making deals. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I got a bad feeling David Wildstein will plead the 5th all the way to prison. We’ll probably never know what really happened or who else is involved. > [@Procrustus](#): > > They could offer him immunity and make him talk. Maybe I missed someone else pointing this out, but shortly after the committee found Wildstein in contempt his attorney said, > [@](#): > > If the attorneys general for New Jersey, New York and the United States were all to agree to clothe Mr. Wildstein with an immunity, I think that you’d find yourselves in a far different position with respect to information he could provide. CYA mode indeed. At least his attorney thinks he has info worth trading for immunity. Methinks this is about to get very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/105 "2014-01-10T15:04:11Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Rachel Maddow has uncovered an alternate motive for the lane closures: retaliation against legislative Democrats. Why? > > [ul] > [li]Christie refused to renominate Associate Justice John Wallace, a Democrat, to the New Jersey Supreme Court. It was the first time in New Jersey’s history that a governor didn’t renominate a Supreme Court Justice regardless of party and regardless of by whom that Justice was nominated. Ever.[/li] > [li]Why did he refuse to renominate him? He didn’t like the way the Court had ruled in several affordable housing cases, saying he believed the Court “overstepped its role.” “He made it clear that he intended to ‘reshape the court’ by appointing a conservative majority.”[/li] > [li]The Democratic-led legislature then refused to confirm any of Christie’s nominees to refill that seat. They confirmed all of his nominees for every _other_ seat to every other court, but not that one.[/li] > [li]Then another Supreme Court Justice came up for renomination: Associate Justice Helen Hoens, a Republican. The legislature informed him they would not be reconfirming her, either.[/li] > [li]Christie called a press conference to announce that he would not be renominating Justice Hoens after all, because he refused to subject her to the “animals” in the legislature.[/li] > [li]That press conference took place in the late afternoon of August 12, 2013.[/li][/ul] [ul] > [li]The email from his deputy chief of staff that said it was “time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee” was [**date and time stamped August 13 at 7:34 a.m.**](http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/01/read_the_emails_between_christie.html)[/li] > [li]The Democratic Senate Majority Leader Loretta Weinberg’s district? [Includes Fort Lee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/37th_Legislative_District_%28New_Jersey%29).[/li][/ul] I think she nailed it. This had nothing to do with a lack of endorsement by the mayor and everything to do with fucking with Senator Weinberg. If half of this shit is true, he needs to resign. Punishing the ordinary people of a state to carry out a petty feud is not acceptable behavior for an elected official. He’s clearly unfit for public office. I typically travel across the GWB several times a year by car. It’s bad enough on a regular day when you can get stuck there for at least half an hour. To have someone in office make it worse so he can engage in a private feud with another official – words can barely express my rage over his actions. Fuck him. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/106 "2014-01-10T15:12:01Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > CYA mode indeed. At least his attorney thinks he has info worth trading for immunity. > > Methinks this is about to get very interesting. I hope so. But- perhaps the lawyer is just shucking and jiving. Suppose Wildstein gets immunity and then his story matches Christie’s account to a tee? Or he says “It was all my idea and nobody else’s. Sucks to be you and have just granted me immunity”. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/107 "2014-01-10T16:06:37Z")
Wow. It’s amazing to me that the media and democrats are jumping on Christie as hard as they are. It was the media and democrats who decided that Christie is a national front runner for the GOP. (I don’t know of any Republicans who would vote Christie for President.) Apparently, the media and democrats have rescinded their endorsement? How many people, nationwide, care what happens on a bridge in NJ? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/108 "2014-01-10T16:10:18Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > How many people, nationwide, care what happens on a bridge in NJ? Because people don’t want their elected officials to be petty, vindictive jerks who will screw over citizens if they get mad at other politicians. Pretty simple, really. I am sure you’d have no trouble understanding this if it were about a Democratic governor. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/109 "2014-01-10T16:18:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because people don’t want their elected officials to be petty, vindictive jerks who will screw over citizens if they get mad at other politicians. Pretty simple, really. I am sure you’d have no trouble understanding this if it were about a Democratic governor. Is that what Christie did? I haven’t seen any smoking gun yet. If the voters in NJ want to wait for actual proof of Christie’s involvement, I wouldn’t blame them one bit. Who claimed that Christie was punishing the mayor of Ft Lee? Is there any proof of this? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/110 "2014-01-10T16:20:20Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Is that what Christie did? I haven’t seen any smoking gun yet. No, we do not know that Christie was responsible - although we know that some of his top aides were involved, and that’s plenty bad. > [@](#): > > Who claimed that Christie was punishing the mayor of Ft Lee? Is there any proof of this? Isn’t this discussed in every single news story on the subject? ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/111 "2014-01-10T16:23:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because people don’t want their elected officials to be petty, vindictive jerks who will screw over citizens if they get mad at other politicians. Pretty simple, really. I am sure you’d have no trouble understanding this if it were about a Democratic governor. Let’s be honest here. A lot of republicans _want_ their elected official to be petty, vindictive jerks, based on the number of people defending Christie in this scandal. The fact that Christie shook hands with Obama seems to be a bigger scandal than that he may have caused a woman’s death to the right-wingers. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/112 "2014-01-10T16:23:47Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Is that what Christie did? I haven’t seen any smoking gun yet. > > If the voters in NJ want to wait for actual proof of Christie’s involvement, I wouldn’t blame them one bit. > > Who claimed that Christie was punishing the mayor of Ft Lee? Is there any proof of this? There is absolutely no question that the disruption to traffic in Ft Lee was deliberate. Whether it was to punish the mayor, their state senator, or the people of Ft Lee themselves has yet to be determined. The most logical explanation seems to be of bullying a local politician or several politicians. Maybe it was a rogue operation by Christie staffers, but a lot of us would be quite amazed if Christie didn’t order it himself. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/113 "2014-01-10T16:31:47Z")
I mean, if Jesus himself came down from the heavens and announced that Christie was unaware of the machinations of his office, that only means that rather than being a corrupt dillhole, Christie’s an incompetent dillhole. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/114 "2014-01-10T16:36:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, we do not know that Christie was responsible - although we know that some of his top aides were involved, and that’s plenty bad. > > Isn’t this discussed in every single news story on the subject? > [@BobLibDem](#): > > There is absolutely no question that the disruption to traffic in Ft Lee was deliberate. Whether it was to punish the mayor, their state senator, or the people of Ft Lee themselves has yet to be determined. The most logical explanation seems to be of bullying a local politician or several politicians. Maybe it was a rogue operation by Christie staffers, but a lot of us would be quite amazed if Christie didn’t order it himself. I don’t consider Christie to be a national political figure so maybe that lowers my expectation of what a NJ (or Chicago) politician is capable of. The voters in NJ can roll out the tar and feathers or reelect Christie as many times as they chose. I would like to know who first floated the idea that Christie closed the bridge in order to punish the mayor of Ft Lee. Did that person have ANY proof that this had happened or were they just starting a new rumor because they were tired of the old rumors? ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/115 "2014-01-10T16:36:51Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Wow. It’s amazing to me that the media and democrats are jumping on Christie as hard as they are. It was the media and democrats who decided that Christie is a national front runner for the GOP. As with the Iraq wars, not all media and not all Democrats. > [@](#): > > How many people, nationwide, care what happens on a bridge in NJ? Many people care about deliberate sabotage to the city of Fort Lee, businesses in NYC, schoolchildren on their first day of school, families, workers, taxpayers et al. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/116 "2014-01-10T16:36:53Z")
Right. We don’t know if Christie himself was responsible, but voters are within their rights to blame the guy if he ran an office where people like this were in charge and felt they could act this way. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/117 "2014-01-10T16:40:22Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I would like to know who first floated the idea that Christie closed the bridge in order to punish the mayor of Ft Lee. The issue right now is Christie’s ADMINISTRATION. We’ll see if it was Christie himself that “closed the bridge in order to punish the mayor of Ft Lee”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/118 "2014-01-10T16:46:30Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Let’s be honest here. > > A lot of republicans _want_ their elected official to be petty, vindictive jerks, based on the number of people defending Christie in this scandal. I don’t know if that’s true or not. I do know this is sort of Bush-esque. > [@doorhinge](#): > > I don’t consider Christie to be a national political figure Is there any reason we should care about your personal assessment? He’s a likely presidential candidate, and there are some reasons to think he’d be a strong candidate. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Did that person have ANY proof that this had happened or were they just starting a new rumor because they were tired of the old rumors? The “old rumors” (that the lane closures were an act of political retaliation) were 100% accurate. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/119 "2014-01-10T16:55:37Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > As with the Iraq wars, not all media and not all Democrats. > > Many people care about deliberate sabotage to the city of Fort Lee, businesses in NYC, schoolchildren on their first day of school, families, workers, taxpayers et al. The point being that GOP voters don’t consider Christie to be a national front runner for POTUS. Many people in NJ and possibly NYC, are probably very concerned. I’m not sure Idaho or New Mexico consider this to be a massive 24/7 news story. So someone has been fired and the legislature is holding a hearing(s) to discover the specifics of what happened. Christie’s chances of becoming President haven’t changed. No body has ended up in a NJ landfill. Yet. The daily mentioning of this case is one thing. The media obsession with this story is bizarre. And entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/120 "2014-01-10T16:57:44Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The point being that GOP voters don’t consider Christie to be a national front runner for POTUS. [Go on.](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/01/09/polls-showed-christie-as-early-front-runner-for-2016/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=7)