# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 66
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1301 "2017-09-25T12:43:17Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > By the way, New Jersey has term limits for its governors. So this is not even a case of the governor realizing that he has no chance of re-election and deciding to step aside. > > Chris Christie will be legally ineligible to be governor since he has already served two consecutive terms. > > But I suppose it’s remotely possible that he will resign between now and the time his term ends in 2018. So **BobLibDem** has a glimmer of hope. Hey if your state had the record of crappy governors that we do, you would have term limits too. I mean we haven’t had a decent governor since the 80s. Corsine was worse than Christie and he was better than McGreavy; who resigned in disgrace. :smack: Sometimes I think we should have a term limit of 1 term instead. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1302 "2017-09-25T13:02:14Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Sometimes I think we should have a term limit of 1 term instead. Or maybe half a term, because only dead salmon go with the flow. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1303 "2018-09-22T08:50:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There are plenty of shoes left to drop and hopefully they’ve got time to find an orange jumpsuit in Christie’s size. The 5-year anniversary of Bridgegate was just a few days ago. Ready to admit you were wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1304 "2018-09-22T13:13:38Z")
Wait, you mean there’s still any doubt that Christie deliberately caused the traffic jam? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1305 "2018-09-23T01:54:06Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > The 5-year anniversary of Bridgegate was just a few days ago. > > Ready to admit you were wrong? I’m confused. Do you think he didn’t do it? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1306 "2018-09-23T02:17:29Z")
Christie’s subordinates in the Bridgegate conspiracy to commit fraud have been [convicted and sentenced](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lee_lane_closure_scandal). > [@](#): > > On May 1, 2015, the U.S. Attorney unsealed indictments, charging [Port Authority deputy executive director] Bill Baroni and [Christie’s deputy chief of staff] Bridget Anne Kelly with nine counts of conspiracy, fraud and related charges. These included conspiracy to commit fraud by “knowingly converting and intentionally misapplying property of an organization receiving federal benefits”. That same day, prosecutors released [Christie appointee to the PA and official who ordered the Fort Lee bridge lane closures] David Wildstein’s plea bargain. He had agreed in January to plead guilty to conspiracy to commit fraud and conspiracy against civil rights. Wildstein, whose sentencing was delayed until after the trial, agreed to testify against Baroni and Kelly. > > The indictments charge that the lane closures were retribution against [Fort Lee Mayor Mark] Sokolich for not endorsing Christie. Fishman said that Wildstein had corroborated the allegations in the indictments, and said that the three officials “agreed to and did use public resources to carry out a vendetta and exact retribution,” and that they “callously victimized the people of Fort Lee.” […] > > On November 4, 2016, after deliberating the testimony of 35 witnesses (including the defendants) and other evidence over the course of five days, the jury found Baroni and Kelly guilty on all counts. But it appears that the official misconduct case against Christie himself will not be pursued further, so maybe that’s the bit **brazil84** is talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1307 "2018-09-24T09:57:35Z")
Let him have this one. He clearly has so little else of note in his life if he has been counting the days until he could post that. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1308 "2018-09-24T12:11:26Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Christie’s subordinates in the Bridgegate conspiracy to commit fraud have been [convicted and sentenced](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lee_lane_closure_scandal). I didn’t follow the story and just now noticed the bumping. Click further and all I see is ambiguity. _ **How many of these criminals went to prison? How much time did they get? Real prison or country-club prison for millionaires and politicians?** _ ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1309 "2018-09-24T14:07:09Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I didn’t follow the story and just now noticed the bumping. Click further and all I see is ambiguity. > > _ **How many of these criminals went to prison? How much time did they get? Real prison or country-club prison for millionaires and politicians?** _ per Wikipedia, Bill Baroni and Bridget Ann Kelly were both convicted. They each got 500 hours of community service and jail time (two years for Baroni, eighteen months for Kelly). Further digging doesn’t reveal much, beyond the fact that as of late April of this year, the two were still pursuing appeals of their convictions. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1310 "2018-09-24T15:34:34Z")
at least he did not break his leg in office like the 3 previous elected NJ governors [https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/369322-christie-becomes-first-nj-governor-in-decades-to-avoid-breaking-leg](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/369322-christie-becomes-first-nj-governor-in-decades-to-avoid-breaking-leg) ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1311 "2018-09-24T15:41:09Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > at least he did not break his leg in office like the 3 previous elected NJ governors > > [https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/369322-christie-becomes-first-nj-governor-in-decades-to-avoid-breaking-leg](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/369322-christie-becomes-first-nj-governor-in-decades-to-avoid-breaking-leg) Does that mean he paid the protection money? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1312 "2018-09-24T15:44:02Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > Does that mean he paid the protection money? I would ask Tony Soprano except he got whacked in the diner by the guy in the members only jacket 😃 ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1313 "2018-11-24T12:06:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, you mean there’s still any doubt that Christie deliberately caused the traffic jam? > [@fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m confused. Do you think he didn’t do it? Try reading a few more of the later posts in the thread. It should clear up any confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1314 "2018-11-24T13:51:36Z")
The later posts in this thread consist of you insisting without any evidence at all that he didn’t do it, and everyone else who’s paid attention to the evidence being amazed that you could still be unsure. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1315 "2018-11-24T13:59:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The later posts in this thread consist of you insisting without any evidence at all that he didn’t do it, and everyone else who’s paid attention to the evidence being amazed that you could still be unsure. I don’t think he’s unsure. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1316 "2018-11-24T18:31:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The later posts in this thread consist of you insisting without any evidence at all that he didn’t do it, and everyone else who’s paid attention to the evidence being amazed that you could still be unsure. Please quote me where I “insist[ed] without any evidence at all that he didn’t do it.” If you are able to, I will pubclicly apologize to you. And I expect that if you are unable to, then you will publicly apologize to me. To help you in your quest, you might start looking at what I said in Post #1286. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1317 "2018-11-24T18:53:37Z")
if Christie was out there he could have blocked 3 lanes just with his body. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1318 "2018-11-24T18:56:43Z")
So your repeated bumps to gloat are over what, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1319 "2018-11-24T18:58:22Z")
And here is what I said in Post #1241: > [@](#): > > For what it’s worth, I believe that more likely than not, Christie was aware of and approved the lane closures. But at the same time, Christie is an experienced politician and attorney and it’s likely that he was careful not to put anything in writing and to make sure that he could plausibly deny any knowledge or involvement. But please, show me where I insisted without any evidence that Christie “didn’t do it.” ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1320 "2018-11-24T21:24:17Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I don’t think he’s unsure. Actually I’m pretty sure what I said was that I thought it was pretty likely that Christie was complicit in the lane closures. I don’t recall ever insisting – with or without evidence – that Christie was uninvolved. But I have an open mind and stand ready to publicly apologize if I have mis-characterized my own position. Just as I expect you and/or **Chronos** to admit it and publicly apologize if you are the ones who mis-characterized my position. So, please tell me: Where did I state or imply the certitude you refer to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=65) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=67)