# Did Congress really subpoena a brain dead person? (Terri Schiavo) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-congress-really-subpoena-a-brain-dead-person-terri-schiavo/295173 "2005-03-18T18:21:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-congress-really-subpoena-a-brain-dead-person-terri-schiavo/295173/61 "2005-03-20T19:26:39Z")
> [@Stryfe](#): > > Firstly, not keeping somebody alive is the same as killing them, it’s just a politcally correct term for starving someone to death. If it is physically impossible for a person to survive without mechanical aid and death would follow quickly without this, then that is a different matter, but to allow someone to slowly die over a couple of week period is hardly humane. A feeding tube IS “mechanical aid”. Terri Schiavo cannot survive without it. If she’s fed by mouth, she’ll either choke to death on the food or aspirate it into her lungs and die of pneumonia. Why is removing the feeding tube any different from disconnecting a ventilator or discontinuing an IV? (As for the inhumanity of the action: Terri Schiavo has no consciousness, and no ability to feel anything. How can ANYTHING we do to her be inhumane?) > [@Stryfe](#): > > Secondly, where did Mrs Schiavo state that she wanted treatment withdrawn? Has she made a living will (or whatever you call in in the USA)? Like nearly all 20-somethings, Terri Schiavo did not have a living will. She apparently did make some general statements about not wanting “extreme measures” to both her husband and her friends, but the statements were both general and brief; it’s uncertain whether she ever had an extended discussion on this topic with anyone (given her age, I’d think not). > [@Stryfe](#): > > but if this woman has the mental capacity of a one year old (as has been reported) or is “brain dead”, then how can she make that decision? She does not have the mental capacity of a one year old; she has no mental capacity whatsoever. As she is incapable of deciding anything for herself, decisions regarding her care of necessity devolve onto her legal next-of-kin: her husband. > [@Stryfe](#): > > If not, who gets to decide if she lives or dies. The law is very clear on that point. Her legal next of kin, her husband, is the one who gets to make medical decisions on Terri’s behalf. When her parents challenged his decision in court, Michael Schiavo allowed the court to determine what ought to be done - and after hearing all the evidence, the court decided that the available evidence did indeed support Michael’s claim that continuing the feeding tube was not in accordance with his wife’s espressed wishes (such as they were), and upheld the decision to remove the feeding tube. > [@Stryfe](#): > > I’m not saying that there are no circumstances where withdrawing treatment is inappropriate, but we have to be 100% certain that this is in accordance with the wishes of the individual as once treatment as been withdrawn they are effectively granted a death sentence. We can never be 100% certain. Even if Terri had signed a very detailed living will, how could we be sure her wishes hadn’t changed during the interval between her signing the living will and her heart attack? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-congress-really-subpoena-a-brain-dead-person-terri-schiavo/295173/62 "2005-03-20T19:26:48Z")
> [@Stryfe](#): > > Firstly, not keeping somebody alive is the same as killing them, it’s just a politcally correct term for starving someone to death. No, it’s following the person’s wishes by not giving them treatment they don’t want. > [@](#): > > If it is physically impossible for a person to survive without mechanical aid and death would follow quickly without this, then that is a different matter, but to allow someone to slowly die over a couple of week period is hardly humane. It’s not inhumane if the person has no ability to suffer. > [@](#): > > Secondly, where did Mrs Schiavo state that she wanted treatment withdrawn? Has she made a living will (or whatever you call in in the USA)? I agree that someone who has the concious ability to request that treatment is withdrawn is exercising their rights, but if this woman has the mental capacity of a one year old (as has been reported) or is “brain dead”, then how can she make that decision? Before her injury, she made several statements to her husband and to others that she would not wish to be kept alive artificially in these circumstances. Everyone she told has testified under oath and multiple courts have ruled that the evidence is convincing that Terri Schiavo would not want to be kept on a feeding tube. > [@](#): > > If not, who gets to decide if she lives or dies. The court made that determination after listening to testimony and evidence from all sides. It should probably be said again that the decision was made by the court and _not_ by Michael Schiavo. Michael simply asked the court to decide what _Terri would have wanted_. he did not directly ask the court to remove the tubes. The propaganda which pits the parents against Michael Schiavo is misleading. It’s the parents against the _courts_. > [@](#): > > In another thread it was stated that she can physically eat, but is not allowed to by a court ruling, I’ll look for the cite for this, so starving someone who can eat is barbaric, if this is true. It’s _not_ true. Terri Schiavo cannot physically eat. She can’t even swallow her own saliva, much less chew and swallow food. > [@](#): > > I’m not saying that there are no circumstances where withdrawing treatment is inappropriate, but we have to be 100% certain that this is in accordance with the wishes of the individual as once treatment as been withdrawn they are effectively granted a death sentence. We already are 100% sure, as the courts have ruled over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-congress-really-subpoena-a-brain-dead-person-terri-schiavo/295173/63 "2005-03-20T19:35:53Z")
> [@Stryfe](#): > > Secondly, where did Mrs Schiavo state that she wanted treatment withdrawn? Her husband and brother- and sister-in-law all pointed to conversations she had where she stated she would not like to be kept alive artificially, as their grandmother was. What her parents have offered as contradictory evidence is 1) a conversation when she was 11 or 12, and 2) dubious recollections of conversations related to Karen Quinlan. The comments about the grandmother was made when she was an adult, so it’s both more relevant and more convincing. > [@](#): > > Has she made a living will (or whatever you call in in the USA)? If she had, she wouldn’t be in this mess. > [@](#): > > how can she make that decision? She can’t, and that’s why her husband is authorized to make that decision. Courts have ruled that he’s the one to decide and that she would have wanted to die. ---
**Author:** ![jeffh3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/34f0e0/32.png) [@jeffh3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeffh3000)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-congress-really-subpoena-a-brain-dead-person-terri-schiavo/295173/64 "2005-03-20T20:56:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not a legal expert, but it’s clear that this is a huge stretch of the boundaries of what a subpoena is supposed to be. It’s supposed to be for information gathering, not interference in a case or a stalling tactic. You can see NYTimes articles to this effect. Probably they’re just trying whatever they can think of. Exactly right, which brings the legitimacy of the subponena in question. If it is not found not to be, then any action taken against someone resulting from this suponena is questionable. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-congress-really-subpoena-a-brain-dead-person-terri-schiavo/295173/65 "2005-03-20T21:21:16Z")
“Courts have ruled that he’s the one to decide and that she would have wanted to die.” Wrong. Courts have ruled that THEY are the ones to decide, and that she would have wanted to refuse medical life support. Michael hasn’t had any choice in the matter since 2000, when the court appointed an impartial guardian. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-congress-really-subpoena-a-brain-dead-person-terri-schiavo/295173/66 "2005-03-21T12:52:32Z")
So now the House has “passed” the Bill to allow the parents to sue in Federal Court to have the tube put back in. I say “passed”, as the winning side didn’t get a true majority on this. (203 - 58) . **174** Members of the House chose not to vote on this issue (I say due to cowardice). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-congress-really-subpoena-a-brain-dead-person-terri-schiavo/295173/67 "2005-03-21T13:09:54Z")
There’s been some cowardice on display here, but _again_, Congress is out of session. These people didn’t abstain; they’re actually not in Washington. Maybe some could have made it back and didn’t, I don’t know, but it’s Easter break. What we saw here (Congress meeting on a weekend, late at night, after it’s recessed) is very unusual. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-congress-really-subpoena-a-brain-dead-person-terri-schiavo/295173.md?page=3)