# Did cowboys really duel each other? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 8, 2020, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099 "2020-03-08T12:38:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/21 "2020-03-09T00:43:10Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > Mister, I don’t doubt that you was good in your day, but I also reckon you ain’t as quick as you once was. And this kid, I hear he’s a pretty fast draw; mebbe not as fast as you was twenny year ago, but he makes up for it in bein’ just plain mean. Hell, he’s already planted a dozen good men. It ain’t no shame if you decide to hang up your Colt - ain’t we seen enough killin’ in this town already? I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/22 "2020-03-09T01:24:52Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Christopher Walken kept it safe. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/23 "2020-03-09T02:51:56Z")
Johnny L.A.! Never thought you’d have the nerve to show your face in these parts again, not after the Daltons done run you off two summers back. Well, I guess you must be tired of livin’, or you just get bored smokin’ those senoritas down in Juarez? No matter, you’n I got a score to settle. You still packin’ that Smith ‘n Wesson Model 3? I be glad to take it off you right here and now, son. You got somethin’ to say, better spit it out! ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/24 "2020-03-11T04:29:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, they went away with the introduction of _revolvers_… 1. Colt seems to have kicked off the revolver craze, starting around 1836. Dueling had largely ended in the UK already by 1840. By my estimation, from looking at the gap between years on [this page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_duels), I’d surmise that it peaked in the 1800-1810 period and it was all downhill from there. 2. Here is a list of 18th century dueling pistols, simply the first 5 I was able to find which clearly stated whether they were rifled or smooth bore. (Note: I wrote this before searching.) [VERY FINE PAIR OF 18th C BURL ITALIAN FLINTLOCK DUELING PISTOLS](https://www.icollector.com/VERY-FINE-PAIR-OF-18th-C-BURL-ITALIAN-FLINTLOCK-DUELING-PISTOLS_i20964470) (Smooth bore / Non-revolving) [File:French cased duelling pistols, Nicolas Noel Boutet, single shot, flintlock, rifled, .58 caliber, blued steel, Versailles, 1794-1797 - Royal Ontario Museum - DSC09477.jpg - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:French_cased_duelling_pistols,_Nicolas_Noel_Boutet,_single_shot,_flintlock,_rifled,_.58_caliber,_blued_steel,_Versailles,_1794-1797_-_Royal_Ontario_Museum_-_DSC09477.jpg) (Rifled / Non-revolving) [Hamilton and Burr’s Dueling Pistols Are Coming to Washington, D.C. | At the Smithsonian| Smithsonian Magazine](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/hamilton-and-burrs-dueling-pistols-are-coming-washington-dc-180969045/) (Smooth bore / Non-revolving) [Pair of John Fox Twigg of London Flintlock Dueling Pistols Refinished Originals, MFD 1755-1788, Antique | Lock, Stock & Barrel](https://lsbauctions.com/3631/pair-of-john-fox-twigg-of-london-flintlock-dueling-pistols-refinished-originals-mfd-1755-1788-antique/) (Smooth bore / Non-revolving) [https://www.gunauction.com/buy/14501480](https://www.gunauction.com/buy/14501480) (Rifled / Non-revolving) 1. Duels were conducted, generally, so that each side took a turn. This is makes a revolver meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/25 "2020-03-11T05:32:59Z")
All this arcane gun knowledge is _so adorable_, ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/26 "2020-03-11T13:59:51Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > All this arcane gun knowledge is _so adorable_, **Moderator Note** I’m going to take this as a threadshit. No warning issued, but if you can’t contribute positively to a thread, don’t snark at others. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/27 "2020-03-11T14:26:34Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > That would depend on the rules, though. \ Rules? In a knife fight? No rules! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/28 "2020-03-11T15:26:15Z")
I recall story where Joe, in a second floor poker (or faro?) game, was told that Fred was waiting for him out in the street. Joe picked up his rifle, leaned out the window, shot Fred, and went back to his poker or faro game. ---
**Author:** ![jbaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jbaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbaker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/29 "2020-03-11T16:56:08Z")
Duels were still a thing in the Old West, especially in the early years of what we think of as the Old West. For example, Mark Twain challenged another newspaperman to a duel in 1864, although the duel did not take place (partly because duels were illegal in Nevada in 1864). However, these formal duels were entirely unlike the duels in Westerns. They were planned events subject to rules, and each duelist had a second. They generally were fought to avenge insults, not to see who was the faster shot. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/30 "2020-03-11T17:38:51Z")
> [@jbaker](#): > > For example, Mark Twain challenged another newspaperman to a duel in 1864, although the duel did not take place (partly because duels were illegal in Nevada in 1864). Was this the one where a French guy carried the “fatal weapons” on hi key chain? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/31 "2020-03-11T17:48:45Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Rules? In a knife fight? No rules! 😃 Always bringing a knife to a gunfight… ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/32 "2020-03-11T17:49:18Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man! Fill your hand… ---
**Author:** ![jbaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jbaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbaker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/33 "2020-03-11T18:22:09Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Was this the one where a French guy carried the “fatal weapons” on hi key chain? Is this a reference to something? Anyway, no. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/34 "2020-03-12T15:57:10Z")
> [@jbaker](#): > > Is this a reference to something? Anyway, no. Twain wrote an essay about being the Second in a duel. The dueling pistols were tiny, and the other Second had them on a key chain. ---
**Author:** ![jbaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jbaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbaker)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/35 "2020-03-12T16:11:25Z")
Twain’s account of his duel is at [Mark Twain Autobiography: On Duels and Shakespeare - EveryWriter](https://www.everywritersresource.com/mark-twain-autobiography-on-duels-and-shakespeare/). According to the account there, Twain himself was not a good shot, but his second was excellent and his opponent was misled to believe that Twain had his second’s skill, leading to the duel’s cancellation. No mention of keychains. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/36 "2020-03-12T16:29:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Twain wrote an essay about being the Second in a duel. The dueling pistols were tiny, and the other Second had them on a key chain. This is the French duel in [A Tramp Abroad](http://www.online-literature.com/twain/tramp-abroad/8/). ---
**Author:** ![jbaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jbaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbaker)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/37 "2020-03-12T16:39:57Z")
Thanks, Marvin the Martian. The French duel is pretty obviously fiction (and, of course, was not held in the Old West). The Nevada duel account is from Twain’s autobiography and is something that actually happened (or, rather, failed to happen), although the details of Twain’s account are disputed. They both make good reading. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/38 "2020-03-12T18:06:15Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > This is the French duel in [A Tramp Abroad](http://www.online-literature.com/twain/tramp-abroad/8/). Thanks, Marvin. I could not Google it. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/39 "2020-03-13T10:31:19Z")
What’s this talk of duels? The cowpokes in Western movies had showdowns. Calling them duels would probably get you ridden out of town on a rail. Or shot. Then hanged. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099/40 "2020-03-13T11:06:23Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > What’s this talk of duels? The cowpokes in Western movies had showdowns. Calling them duels would probably get you ridden out of town on a rail. Or shot. Then hanged. Oh yeah? What about [Duel at Diablo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duel_at_Diablo). You think James Garner was a wuss? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-duel-each-other/849099.md?page=3)