# Did cowboys really used to do quick draw? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 5, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416 "2010-05-05T16:09:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![notsoheavyd3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85e7bf/32.png) [@notsoheavyd3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notsoheavyd3)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/1 "2010-05-05T16:09:11Z")
Ok so I haven’t watched the latest Deadliest Warrior. (A show that makes me appreciate how much actual science gets done on Mythbusters BTW. This is disturbing since DW supposedly has an actual scientist and MB doesn’t.) So since the latest episode had cowboys (no I’m not making this up) I was kind of curious about those old cap and ball revolvers. Did the cowboys back then actually do fast draw? (All I know is modern fast draw expert Bob Munden says don’t use live ammo so I’m guessing there’s a good chance you’ll just shoot yourself in the leg.) Also those old guns, were they that reliable? Did they misfire alot? (I’ve heard that you don’t leave the hammer on a loaded cylinder, is that true and would it make fast draw impossible?) Of course anything anybody wants to add about myths vs. reality of old west revolvers please feel free. (Oh, and if Jamie and Adam ever happen to read this board occasionally you guys do great work. You’re better than Fight Science too.) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/2 "2010-05-05T16:30:29Z")
I suppose cowboys might have practiced quick draws for fun or competition but the reality of the Wild West shootout is hugely overblown by modern media. > [@](#): > > How many murders do you suppose these old western towns saw a year? Let’s say the bloodiest, gun-slingingest of the famous cattle towns with the cowboys doing quick-draws at high noon every other day. A hundred? More? > > How about five? That was the most murders any old-west town saw in any one year. Ever. Most towns averaged about 1.5 murders a year, and not all of those were shooting. You were way more likely to be murdered in Baltimore in 2008 than you were in Tombstone in 1881, the year of the famous gunfight at the OK Corral (body count: three) and the town’s most violent year ever. > > As for the traditional Western gunfight as depicted in movies, the inaccuracy of handguns at the time would have made quick-drawing skill irrelevant: It was simply so unlikely you’d hit a guy on the first, second or third shot that it didn’t really matter which guy got out his gun first. The closest history got to high-noon show downs was dueling, where people just stood across from one another with their guns out, aimed and fired until someone got lucky, and someone else was dead. Forget about “fanning,” rapidly cocking a single-action revolver between rounds like Clint Eastwood does in A Fistful of Dollars. You’d be lucky to hit a henchman if the duel took place in a closet. > > SOURCE: [6 Ridiculous History Myths (You Probably Think Are True) | Cracked.com](http://www.cracked.com/article_18487_6-ridiculous-history-myths-you-probably-think-are-true.html) ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/3 "2010-05-05T16:31:05Z")
Probably not as much as Hollywood portrays: > **[Gunfighter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunslinger)** > > Gunfighters, also called gunslingers (/ˈɡʌnslɪŋər/), or in the late 19th and early 20th century, gunmen were individuals in the American Old West who gained a reputation of being dangerous with a gun and participated in gunfights and shootouts. Today, the term "gunslinger" is more or less used to denote someone who is quick on the draw with a handgun, but this can also refer to those armed with rifles and shotguns. The gunfighter is also one of the most popular characters in the Western genre ... Most fights were ambushes and the like, not the (samauri like) stare down duels. Some gunfighters did indulge trick shooting for shows, so I don’t doubt that quick draw skills were occasionally used in non-show situations (mainly in reacting to being ambushed). ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/4 "2010-05-05T16:35:26Z")
Loading 5 instead of 6 is a common safety practice with revolvers. It doesn’t negate a potential “fast draw”, because when the hammer is cocked, the cylinder will rotate to the next slot–which contains a live round that will fire if the trigger is pulled. That noted, my understanding is that the Matt Dillon style showdown at high noon quick draw thing is mostly myth. Drawing and firing as quickly as possible isn’t really conducive to accuracy. I can see it maybe being effective over a card table…but at ranges much longer than that, it’s going to be hard to hit anything. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/5 "2010-05-05T16:37:43Z")
The typical Hollywood quick draw scene pretty much never happened. The one incident that was kinda close was when Wild Bill Hickok got into some sort of scrape with Davis Tutt. Details are a bit sketchy, and the Wikipedia page for Hickok lists one version of the story, but really all that is known for certain is that the fight was over a watch, and there was certainly a lot more than just the watch behind it all. Hickok and Tutt faced each other dueling style and shot. They didn’t do a quick draw. Most of your other famous quick draw battles, like the shootout at the OK Corral, didn’t happen anything at all like how they are portrayed by Hollywood. They didn’t line up and quick draw at all. The percussion cap was pretty reliable. There were certain models of pistols that could get you into real trouble if you didn’t keep them clean (some of the pepperbox revolvers were notorious for firing off all cylinders at once or just exploding in your hand if you didn’t maintain them very well) but mostly, as long as you took good care of the weapon, it performed well and was safe. A short barreled pistol just isn’t all that accurate at Hollywood gunfight distances. It doesn’t matter what mad skillz the shooter supposedly has. The gun itself just isn’t that accurate. ETA: I don’t have a good cite for it, but I’ve read that the misfire rate for a properly maintained percussion cap weapon is approximately 1 in 1,000. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/6 "2010-05-05T16:38:12Z")
People almost certainly did practice drawing their weapon quickly, but probably not for dueling, rather just to be battle-ready. Dueling with pistols, before the age of the accurate gun, was something people did because you only had a less than 50% chance of even getting shot, and if you did get shot it was more likely to be a mild wound, not a kill shot. Essentially it was safe enough that you could indulge. It was also mostly a game of chance, not skill. A quick draw duel with accurate weapons is entirely a game of skill. And if the other guy was good, there was probably a pretty decent chance of you dying. That rather takes the fun out of it. I’m sure _somebody_ has attempted it, but if so probably because the participants had read about it, not because it was something that was popularly done. And of course, they read about it from fictional stories about the Frontier. > **[Gunfighter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunfighter)** > > Gunfighters, also called gunslingers (/ˈɡʌnslɪŋər/), or in the late 19th and early 20th century, gunmen were individuals in the American Old West who gained a reputation of being dangerous with a gun and participated in gunfights and shootouts. Today, the term "gunslinger" is more or less used to denote someone who is quick on the draw with a handgun, but this can also refer to those armed with rifles and shotguns. The gunfighter is also one of the most popular characters in the Western genre ... [http://www.bobmunden.com/legends.htm](http://www.bobmunden.com/legends.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/7 "2010-05-05T16:44:11Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > A short barreled pistol just isn’t all that accurate at Hollywood gunfight distances. It doesn’t matter what mad skillz the shooter supposedly has. The gun itself just isn’t that accurate. That may have been true a long time ago, but [with a reputable modern weapon it’s all down to the skill of the shooter](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmMEg4y54Dk). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/8 "2010-05-05T17:42:32Z")
Well, there was a town whose name escapes me now that had a high noon type gunfight every few days – when the train came into town. They were staged for the tourists (this was in the 1890s or so). ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/9 "2010-05-05T18:16:33Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I suppose cowboys might have practiced quick draws for fun or competition but the reality of the Wild West shootout is hugely overblown by modern media. RE: Five “murders” in a year? Could this low number possibly be because most of the firearms related deaths were not deemed “murder”, but rather self-defense or “justified” by some old time laws and customs? The ole “We shot him fair and square, Sheriff! It was legal” motif comes to mind. Is it true the most deaths by shooting a town ever saw in the old West was really 5? I think they used the word “murder” to mislead. Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/10 "2010-05-06T00:07:48Z")
I always thought the point of those Hollywood quick draws was not for dueling or fun, but to claim self defense. If you pulled out your gun and shot someone, that was murder. If he drew first and than you shot him, that was self defense. You’d have to be pretty good to draw second but kill first. A quick draw battle wouldn’t make any sense for a lawman who, presumably, would have the right to have his gun drawn when making an arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/11 "2010-05-06T00:54:02Z")
I don’t know if anyone in the old west ever did this, but professional trick shooters will modify a single-action revolver so the hammer doesn’t stay cocked, and they fire the gun by fanning the hammer. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/12 "2010-05-06T01:23:58Z")
So, The Quick and the Dead wasn’t historically accurate? ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/13 "2010-05-06T01:30:49Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > So, The Quick and the Dead wasn’t historically accurate? All except the Armani logo on Sharon Stone’s sunglasses. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/14 "2010-05-06T01:40:44Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Is it true the most deaths by shooting a town ever saw in the old West was really 5? I think they used the word “murder” to mislead. Am I wrong? What, you’re questioning the esteemed journal of Western history that is “[cracked.com](http://cracked.com)”? I would just like to point out that if you follow the link, this claim is backed up by none other than an essay prompt from a film criticism class! Incontrovertible, I say! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/15 "2010-05-06T02:52:53Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > What, you’re questioning the esteemed journal of Western history that is “[cracked.com](http://cracked.com)”? I would just like to point out that if you follow the link, this claim is backed up by none other than an essay prompt from a film criticism class! Incontrovertible, I say! I agree Cracked is hardly a shining cite that can’t be debunked but despite their comical writing they tend to get the facts straight although they may skew the sense of it with their writing. That said I would be happier with a more reliable cite showing data one way or the other. If you’ve got one by all means go for it. On the whole this thread has supported the notion that the Wild West notion of a shootout at high noon is a creation of Hollywood. Quick draw artists squaring off at 100 feet just never really happened. As to whether they deemed a shooting a murder if some guy convinced everyone that the cheater at cards really had it coming so therefore _not_ murder I really couldn’t say. On the one hand I could see that happening and on the other I wonder if the stats just count “people shot”. Would be interesting to know that. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/16 "2010-05-06T03:16:03Z")
Even at the time the old west was happening, it was being fictionalized back in the East by sensationalist news media and pulp fiction writers. I believe Mark Twain wrote an article or essay mocking this by sarcastiscally saying that if you wanted to commit suicide in Dodge City all you had to do was stand on the street and yell an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/17 "2010-05-06T03:48:03Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Is it true the most deaths by shooting a town ever saw in the old West was really 5? I think they used the word “murder” to mislead. Am I wrong? ISTR that the highest number of shootouts in Dodge City was four. I could be mis-remembering. > [@EdwardLost](#): > > You’d have to be pretty good to draw second but kill first. I think ol’ J.B. Hickock said that speed is not as important as accuracy. ISTR reading that he said it’s better to keep your cool when someone is shooting at you and take your time. > [@Lumpy](#): > > I don’t know if anyone in the old west ever did this, but professional trick shooters will modify a single-action revolver so the hammer doesn’t stay cocked, and they fire the gun by fanning the hammer. If you hold back the trigger, the hammer will not stay cocked. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/18 "2010-05-06T03:57:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That said I would be happier with a more reliable cite showing data one way or the other. If you’ve got one by all means go for it. Well, I was being a little tongue-in-cheek there (I suppose that’s what emoticons are for), but I do question that assertion, both with the point of what’s considered a murder, but also the idea that established cow towns like Dodge were necessarily the centers of violence. While they were surely rowdy due to a (cow)boys-will-be-boys attitude, law and order was fairly well established by the height of the cattle drives. Think as a modern analogy as a place like downtown Vegas where a certain amount of unruly behavior is tolerated but is really a very safe place in the greater scheme of things. What’s probably more representative are the frontier mining camps which, due to geography and boom-and-bust economics, tended to be chronically under policed. To that end here’s a thoroughly cited article describing two mining towns in NV and CA: [Violence and Lawlessness on the Western Frontier](http://www.guncite.com/wild_west_myth.html#fn38) It puts the murder/voluntary manslaughter rate at between 64 and 116 per 100,000 depending on how you interpret some newspaper accounts, which is pretty darn high (on the low end roughly comparable to some of the rougher urban neighborhoods in 1986). I don’t disagree that the Hollywood gunfight and indeed most of Hollywood’s treatment of the time is unrealistic, but trying to suggest that much of frontier America wasn’t a very violent place is IMHO sort of wandering into revisionism. And of course all these sources are just talking about violence in towns-- no doubt many killings were in the form of rural bushwhacks that wouldn’t get tallied in a city’s crime rate, especially if you were pulling the old “blame it on Indians” ploy. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/19 "2010-05-06T04:02:23Z")
Author John D Fitzgerald (he wrote the “Great Brain” children’s series) wrote about his uncle, a saloon owner and professional gambler, being crippled for life in a quick-draw duel. Apparently the quick draw shootout actually happened on occasion, at least in Territorial Utah mining camps, which were apparently pretty wild places in the 1880’s… ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416/20 "2010-05-06T04:11:04Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > …trying to suggest that much of frontier America wasn’t a very violent place is IMHO sort of wandering into revisionism. And of course all these sources are just talking about violence in towns-- no doubt many killings were in the form of rural bushwhacks that wouldn’t get tallied in a city’s crime rate, especially if you were pulling the old “blame it on Indians” ploy. I agree the Cracked article leaves one with an impression that the Wild West was almost a peaceful, idyllic time which I have a hard time swallowing. We barely have that now and I am hard pressed to think people back then were all just excellent to each other and let each other be. That said the OP asked about “quick draws” and evidence seems to suggest such a thing is mostly Hollywood. I suppose some few might have practiced it for fun or boredom and make a show of it but by-and-large it was not a required skill on the Frontier. There are some few quick draw artists today…[you can see them on YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqABkG1JpHM) (frankly amazed he hasn’t shot his own balls off doing this…or at least a few toes). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-cowboys-really-used-to-do-quick-draw/538416.md?page=2)