# Did D (B) Cooper make it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853 "2008-03-26T23:43:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/141 "2011-08-07T01:02:43Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > This whole thread is speculation treated as fact. Nobody really knows if he made it. He may have. Was he an expert jumper? He was for the first couple decades, now he isn’t any more. Day or night? Does not matter, he jumped. Cold ,could have not pulled chute, pure speculation. They never found him or his chute. That part is fact. > That is why we are fascinated. He may have pulled it off, and so far, no one can prove otherwise. This is getting old, but I’m bored so what the hell. You basically keep repeating the same thing over and over- “He may have pulled it off”. And I (along with others) keep repeating the same thing- Yes, he may have, but it seems very unlikely. No one has said he couldn’t have pulled it off. “Day or night? Does not matter”- It absolutely does matter. Jumping at night presents special challenges, [according to the U.S. Parachute Association](http://www.uspa.org/tabid/169/Default.aspx#979). These challenges include > [@](#): > > a. the opportunity for disorientation > > b. the new appearance of the earth’s surface and the lack of familiar reference points > > c. Vision and depth perception are greatly impaired by darkness. > > d. Be thoroughly familiar with the effects of hypoxia (oxygen deprivation) on night vision (from the FAA Airmen’s Information Manual on the internet. Click here for the page.): > > (1) One of the first effects of hypoxia, evident as low as 5,000 feet, is loss of night vision. “Cold”- Not speculation. It was 19F at 10,000 ft. according to the flight crew (from [this site](http://n467us.com/), under “The Facts and The Myths”). “Could have not pulled chute, pure speculation”- You’re right, that would be speculation. But no one said that. I said more than once that I don’t think he pulled before impact. I never said he could not have, nor did anyone else. “They never found him or his chute. That part is fact.”- Hey, we agree on something! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/142 "2011-08-07T01:23:49Z")
How long do you wait to deploy a parachute when diving from 10,000 feet for: 1. To open as soon as possible, for example if you can’t see the ground. 2. To be reasonably sure of landing in your intended area. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/143 "2011-08-07T01:32:53Z")
Day or night does not matter whatsoever. He chose a night jump. Then he jumped. Since lots have people have looked for him or his remains, it is easy to think he made it. One of the guys who recreated the jump, explained it was cold and windy and Cooper may have not pulled his cord. The guy recreating sure as hell did. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/144 "2011-08-07T01:48:34Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How long do you wait to deploy a parachute when diving from 10,000 feet for: > > 1. To open as soon as possible, for example if you can’t see the ground. > > 2. To be reasonably sure of landing in your intended area. You can open right away if you have a stable body position. If you’re unstable when you deploy, you run the risk of snagging one or more lines on an arm or leg (or neck) or the container, preventing full canopy inflation. Or a line can go over the canopy, again preventing full inflation. It would actually take about 3-4 seconds- arch hard, look, reach, pull. To be reasonably sure of landing in my intended area, I would take about a 40 second delay and pull at about 3,000 ft. If I exited at the right point, this should put me about half a mile upwind of my target. I should have no problem gliding back and making a safe landing. I’m assuming light winds, I would try to exit and deploy further upwind if the surface wind was stronger. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/145 "2011-08-07T02:01:39Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Day or night does not matter whatsoever… The special challenges of a night jump that I described in post #141 make it more likely that he would have suffered an injury on landing. An injury would make it more difficult to get away. That’s just one of the reasons I don’t think he made it. > [@](#): > > It is easy to think he made it. Easy for some people. I know better than most people what difficulties he faced. It’s easy for me to think he died. > [@](#): > > One of the guys who recreated the jump, explained it was cold and windy and Cooper may have not pulled his cord. So the expert skydiver said Cooper may not have pulled his cord. I agree completely. > [@](#): > > The guy recreating sure as hell did. Smart fella. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/146 "2011-08-07T02:16:19Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How long do you wait to deploy a parachute when diving from 10,000 feet for: > > 1. To open as soon as possible, for example if you can’t see the ground. > > 2. To be reasonably sure of landing in your intended area. **carnivorousplant** , did I answer your question? I was talking about making a “normal” night jump. I wouldn’t jump at all if I couldn’t see the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/147 "2011-08-07T03:05:25Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Day or night does not matter whatsoever. He chose a night jump. I don’t think this is correct. His original demands seemed to involve a daytime jump. He demanded that the plane take off by 5pm. But it was delayed nearly 2 hours, taking off after 7pm. And it was 1 hr 20 minutes later when he actually jumped, so clearly dark by then. He intended a daylight jump; it ended up being at night; but he chose to jump anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/148 "2011-08-07T03:32:37Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I don’t think this is correct. > > His original demands seemed to involve a daytime jump. He demanded that the plane take off by 5pm. But it was delayed nearly 2 hours, taking off after 7pm. And it was 1 hr 20 minutes later when he actually jumped, so clearly dark by then. > > He intended a daylight jump; it ended up being at night; but he chose to jump anyway. Read a few posts up. Sunset on that day was 4:35 PM. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/149 "2011-08-07T03:47:51Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Sunset on that day was 4:35 PM. The sky does not become instantly dark at sunset – it stays light out for some time. Sunset was 8:33 pm here today. I was doing things in the backyard, and did not have to turn on the yardlights until 10pm. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/150 "2011-08-07T12:55:42Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > The sky does not become instantly dark at sunset – it stays light out for some time. > > Sunset was 8:33 pm here today. I was doing things in the backyard, and did not have to turn on the yardlights until 10pm. But even if the plane had taken off on time, he would have jumped at 6:20pm, almost two hours after sunset. If he meant to do a daytime jump, he didn’t read the newspaper that morning. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/151 "2011-08-07T17:13:43Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Question: Does ALL U.S. Currency make its way back to the Federal Reserve?.. No. I remember reading that something like two-thirds of all U.S. currency is overseas. Much of it never comes back. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/152 "2011-08-07T19:57:07Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > No. I remember reading that something like two-thirds of all U.S. currency is overseas. Much of it never comes back. Then we should be able to print a boatload of it and not worry about having to pony up. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/153 "2011-08-07T22:38:20Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > One of the guys who recreated the jump, explained it was cold and windy and Cooper may have not pulled his cord. The guy recreating sure as hell did. One of the two chutes he took was actually a training dummy. It wouldn’t have opened even if he did pull the cord. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/154 "2011-08-07T23:35:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > One of the two chutes he took was actually a training dummy. It wouldn’t have opened even if he did pull the cord. I thought just the emergency chute was a dummy. Did I read wrong? I’d have not given him fake chutes, because I’d have shoved a stewardess out to see if they worked. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/155 "2011-08-08T01:07:57Z")
The last/best documentary I saw on it (probably from the _Mayday_ series, which has been syndicated under several different names) said he was given 4 chutes, 2 were left on the plane after he jumped. and neither of those was the dummy. So the inference is that he was wearing it. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/156 "2011-08-08T01:20:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The last/best documentary I saw on it (probably from the _Mayday_ series, which has been syndicated under several different names) said he was given 4 chutes, 2 were left on the plane after he jumped. and neither of those was the dummy. So the inference is that he was wearing it. Why? If he took 2, why assume he used the dummy? Why not the other one he took? Was the dummy a deliberate ploy to kill him, or an accident by someone who didn’t know the difference? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/157 "2011-08-08T03:38:38Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Why? If he took 2, why assume he used the dummy? Why not the other one he took? > > Was the dummy a deliberate ploy to kill him, or an accident by someone who didn’t know the difference? I knew he asked for 2 chutes. That would make you think he was aware of the differences. It also means he knew about jumping. How many of us would ask for 2 different chutes? But still whet was the point of asking for 2. Was one for lower heights? ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/158 "2011-08-08T04:43:35Z")
According to the site that **Gray Ghost** linked to in post #102 and I linked to in post #141, Cooper asked for 2 backpack parachutes and 2 front (reserve) chutes. As **gonzomax** stated, this suggests that he knew something about jumping. The fact that he didn’t realize one of the reserve chutes was sewn shut, and chose it for his jump, suggests that he wasn’t an expert jumper. One theory is that he asked for 4 chutes so the authorities would think he was going to make a stewardess jump with him, and wouldn’t tamper with them. The “dummy” reserve chute was not intentional. The reason for 2 chutes was to have a backup in case the first one didn’t open. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/159 "2011-08-08T11:17:28Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Why? If he took 2, why assume he used the dummy? Why not the other one he took? It isn’t an assumption, just a strong possibility that would have diminished the probability of his survival. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853/160 "2011-08-08T11:42:59Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It isn’t an assumption, just a strong possibility that would have diminished the probability of his survival. Unless you know something I don’t, I’d say it was a 50% chance he wore the wrong one, not 100%. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-d-b-cooper-make-it/442853.md?page=9)