# Did DeJoy create the USPS slow down?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [January 21, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135 "2021-01-21T20:37:27Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Krispy\_Original](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krispy_Original)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/1 "2021-01-21T20:37:27Z")
I have nothing more than anecdotal evidence that USPS mail delivery is more slow now than prior to Louis DeJoy’s appointment in June 2020…but…is it true that USPS service is degraded, and if so, did Louis DeJoy create the slow down?
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/2 "2021-01-21T20:45:23Z")
Overtime was the norm for postal workers. DeJoy made a rule that overtime would no longer be automatically approved, nor did he approve a staff increase to accommodate that change. A slow down was the predictable result.
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/3 "2021-01-21T20:46:56Z")
> **[U.S. Experienced Mail Slowdown After DeJoy’s Appointment \[Infographic\]](https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/09/22/us-experienced-mail-slowdown-after-dejoys-appointment-infographic/?sh=14412052c5e4)**
>
> An analysis published by the Guardian has found that first class mail delivery rates have plummeted to as low as 60% in some key swing states since Louis DeJoy became Postmaster General.
IMHO: whatever DeJoy wasn’t responsible for, COVID was.
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### Author:  [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/4 "2021-01-21T20:48:58Z")
Another interesting article. Be sure to play with that interactive chart called “First-class mail delivered on time, by postal district:”
> **[Revealed: evidence shows huge mail slowdowns after Trump ally took over](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/21/usps-post-office-mail-slowdowns-louis-dejoy)**
>
> Louis DeJoy’s policies, which he said were intended to boost efficiency, led to widespread outcry this summer
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/5 "2021-01-21T21:01:40Z")
And he also ordered a lot of mail-processing equipment scrapped.
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/6 "2021-01-21T21:21:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> And he also ordered a lot of mail-processing equipment scrapped.
Was there ever an explanation for how this was supposed to actually improve efficiency or otherwise reduce the postal budgetary needs?
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### Author:  [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/7 "2021-01-21T22:20:16Z")
You mean … what was the bullshit cover story ? I don’t know that we ever got one.
Resource:
> **[PolitiFact - What’s happening with mailboxes and mail-sorting machines?](https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/aug/19/whats-happening-mailboxes-and-mail-sorting-machine/)**
>
> One Twitter user claimed that it was "cheating 101." Another used the hashtag "#TRUMPSTEALINGELECTION.&qu
> Mail-sorting machines were also targeted for cuts. Mail-sorting machines process paper mail at distribution centers, speeding delivery and distribution. Each mail-sorting machine [can sort](https://facts.usps.com/innovation/) 36,000 pieces of paper mail per hour. **But in mid-June** , [USPS](https://www.21cpw.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/mail-processing-equipment-reduction_6-17-2020.pdf) contract administration manager Rickey Dean sent a letter to American Postal Workers Union president Mark Dimondstein notifying the union that 671 of these machines would be taken offline over the course of “the next several months.” That reduction would amount to roughly 10% of the Postal Service’s mail sorting machine inventory, a shut-down that could reduce the post office’s sorting ability by nearly 600 million pieces of mail per day.
> On Aug. 16, two months after that notice was given, however, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows [told CNN’s Jake Tapper](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/08/16/mark-meadows-usps-sorting-machines-election-sotu-bts-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/) that “sorting machines between now and the election will not be taken offline.”
> Left unsaid by Meadows: exactly how many of these machines had already been shut down or [destroyed](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/us/politics/postal-service-suspends-changes.html).
> [Across](https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2020/08/17/at-least-a-dozen-mail-sorting-machines-have-already-been-removed-in-massachusetts-postal-union-officials-say) [the](https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article245030145.html) [nation](https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article245030145.html), postal workers have reported [machines](https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/08/dismantled-equipment-behind-cleveland-post-office-raises-delivery-questions.html) have already been eliminated from operating: a dozen in Massachusetts, seven in Charlotte, 15 in the Syracuse, NY, area, and more.
> In Boston, postal union leader Scott Hoffman [told WGBH](https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2020/08/17/at-least-a-dozen-mail-sorting-machines-have-already-been-removed-in-massachusetts-postal-union-officials-say?utm_campaign=wgbhnews&utm_content=1597689839&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter) that nine machines were removed from Boston’s Dorchester Avenue post office. Chris Bentley, a postal union leader, [said](https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/16/politics/mark-meadows-usps-sorting-machines-election-day-cnntv/index.html) that seven mail-sorting machines had been removed in offices in Missouri and Kansas.
> June Harris, president of a Chicago postal union, told PolitiFact she was “concerned” about how the loss of these machines would affect the election.
> “The mail is already backlogged due to COVID,” she said. “The work is being impacted, the workforce is being impacted, and taking these machines offline is making things even worse.”
[Bolding in first paragraph mine]
DeJoy took office in mid-June.
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### Author:  [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/8 "2021-01-21T22:24:00Z")
Part of the logic or justification - like a lot of enterprises in the pandemic, during the first surge there was a surge of front line workers off sick. It could be argued that the problem was much higher overtime rates to get remaining workers to fill in - and DeJoy was just trying to control costs.
That it made mail ballots unreliable - or tried to - was just a bonus, And, reduced performance just when a surge of ballots were expected. Whatever it was, I don’t recall any discussion that a huge number of ballots arrived late, presumably because most people with mail-in ballots already knew who they were voting for and didn’t wait - mailed sufficiently far ahead that the ballots arrived in time.
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### Author:  [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/9 "2021-01-21T22:29:17Z")
> [@md-2000](#):
>
> and DeJoy was just trying to control costs.
> [@md-2000](#):
>
> presumably because most people with mail-in ballots already knew who they were voting for and didn’t wait - mailed sufficiently far ahead that the ballots arrived in time.
We differ (maybe) in two places:
1. In the first case, you seem to lean more toward ‘stupid’ than ‘evil.’ I don’t. I didn’t then, and I damned sure don’t now. This administration was evil incarnate;
2. I think the second quote is better explained by people screaming to the heavens **about** Trump, DeJoy, and the USPS, and pleading with voters **to** get their ballots in the mail as quickly as humanly possible.
Like the 1/6 attempted coup … given different circumstances … this one could easily have worked.
And like the 1/6 attempted coup … there is postage-stamp-adhesive blood **all over** DJT’s tiny hands.
Harrumph.
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### Author:  [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/10 "2021-01-21T22:33:42Z")
And just in case there was any ambiguity …
> In the first case, you seem to lean more toward ‘stupid’ than ‘evil.’
I did not mean to imply that _you_ are either stupid or evil, but rather that DeJoy’s motives were somewhere on the continuum of the two adjectives 😉
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### Author:  [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/11 "2021-01-21T23:21:15Z")
No problem. I know what you meant.
I think that DeJoy may have had two things in mind
- control costs, like everything pandemic, they are spiraling out of control. A right wing costs matter business person would see that as a priority over providing a public service.
- delay mail (in collusion with WH strategists) to delay ballots arriving in time.
The first conveniently dovetailed with the second, and just to drive the point home, remove sorting machines that may expedite mail despite a shortage of workers.
As mentioned, I have not seen an after-the-fact discussion that there were many late ballots, so the delay did not seem to have the desired effect on ballots. Presumably few people waited until the days before to mail their ballots.
i think like much of the WH administration time, it seems stupid trumped (!) evil although both were motivators. Sorry if that’s too political. Instead of delaying ballots, it’s just done lasting harm to regular post office business.
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/12 "2021-01-21T23:27:56Z")
> [@md-2000](#):
>
> Whatever it was, I don’t recall any discussion that a huge number of ballots arrived late, presumably because most people with mail-in ballots already knew who they were voting for and didn’t wait - mailed sufficiently far ahead that the ballots arrived in time.
I mailed mine literally a month before the election. It arrived five days after the election (according to the notification I received).
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### Author:  [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/13 "2021-01-21T23:40:05Z")
From the New York Times (may be paywalled):
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/19/upshot/postal-service-survived-election-but-crushed-by-holidays.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/19/upshot/postal-service-survived-election-but-crushed-by-holidays.html)
I can tell you that around here (Brooklyn, NY), service is an absolute disaster. Mail takes forever to be delivered, about twice as long as it usually does. The local post office (Cadman Plaza, which serves downtown Brooklyn, including the Metrotech business complex) is out of all kinds of necessary forms. You can’t get certified mail forms. You can’t get customs declaration forms. I’m making a run to other post offices tomorrow to scrounge forms.
The situation is not good.
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### Author:  [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2021, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/14 "2021-01-21T23:40:31Z")
For what it’s worth, I have a friend who works as a mail sorter and I asked him about both questions when it was more current. He was of the opinion that both the decisions made by DeJoy regarding overtime and getting rid of machines were absolutely causes of the slowdowns. When I asked about a shift in mail types to where fewer sorting machines and more space for manual package sorting might be justified, he personally thought it was crap from what he was experiencing.
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### Author:  [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2021, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/15 "2021-01-22T00:11:14Z")
The APBS systems that were scrapped were uneeded anyway at least in both of the plants I worked at.
I posted the charts before but during 2020 the USPS saw a 25% to 50% drop in letters total (depending on the class of mail) At least my local plants decided to get rid of their APBS machines and instead use that space to sort packages since we were (and still are) drowning in packaged but are still light on letters.
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### Author:  [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/16 "2021-01-22T00:25:59Z")
The obvious question was whether that was intelligent planning, if the drop was due to covid - what did they think would happen when things were back to normal?
(And did a ballot arriving 5 days late still count? I gather some states had 10 days’ grace?)
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/17 "2021-01-22T00:26:40Z")
[Moderating]
What DeJoy did is factual. Why he did it is not. This thead is in GQ. Remain factual.
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### Author:  [@Krispy\_Original](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krispy_Original)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/18 "2021-01-22T01:26:17Z")
Thanks for the great answers. Okay so how soon can we expect DeJoy to be replaced and the OT ban lifted?
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### Author:  [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2021, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/19 "2021-01-22T05:10:28Z")
Unfortunately, the President can’t directly fire the Postmaster General. He’s hired by the Postal Service Board of Directors (or whatever it’s called), so that body also has the firing power. And that body was all appointed by Trump, so they’re not going to fire him.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2021, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/20 "2021-01-22T05:11:24Z")
[DeJoy ordered the changes suspended](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_DeJoy) after being ordered to by a federal judge in August 2020, and they were reversed by the USPS in October.
The Postmaster General is selected by the Board of Governors. According to [Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/12/15/heres-why-louis-dejoy-will-likely-stay-in-charge-of-the-postal-service-under-biden-board-of-governors-nomination/?sh=67dcaf75a60e) he probably won’t be replaced soon because the board is majority Republican and a vacancy won’t open up until December 2021.
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