# Did DeJoy create the USPS slow down? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 21, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135 "2021-01-21T20:37:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/21 "2021-01-23T06:56:15Z")
At the time, an argument was given that the mail-sorting machines were being scrapped (1) to make more room for package sorting (as mentioned above), but also (2) to make room for newer and better and faster sorting machines what were going to take their place . . . someday. Where machines were removed for the purpose of making room for newer machines, it seemed profoundly stupid and not credible to do so before any new machines were ready to take their places, which there were not. Hence the widespread opinion that it was done deliberately to slow the mail down. That furthermore left unexplained why those machines were being physically dismantled and the parts thrown out in back-alley dumpsters. There were several published photos of that. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/22 "2021-01-23T08:55:05Z")
Do you have any proof of any of your claims? Because at both places I worked stuff was immediately slotted into the areas that formerly had APBS machines, and despite removing the machines there really wasn’t that big of a hit to processing because of the fact mail volume for standard/3rd class mail was down so much. Machines were dumped because they were older models, the useful parts were taken and applied to newer machines. What exactly did you think they were going to do with the machines? Buy a new warehouse and store these old ones indefinitely? The overtime rules were the ones that really delayed the mail, the APBS removals had nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/23 "2021-01-24T14:39:13Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The Postmaster General is selected by the Board of Governors. According to [Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/12/15/heres-why-louis-dejoy-will-likely-stay-in-charge-of-the-postal-service-under-biden-board-of-governors-nomination/?sh=67dcaf75a60e) he probably won’t be replaced soon because the board is majority Republican and a vacancy won’t open up until December 2021. The nomination mentioned in the Forbes article did not get a vote before the Congressional session ended, so Biden will have the opportunity to appoint 4 Democrats to the Board which would shift it to a 5-4 Democrat/Republican majority. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/24 "2021-01-24T17:53:35Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Unfortunately, the President can’t directly fire the Postmaster General. He’s hired by the Postal Service Board of Directors (or whatever it’s called), so that body also has the firing power. And that body was all appointed by Trump, so they’re not going to fire him. LIke many of the departments under Trump, it seems that people were appointed whose primary task was to destroy the department itself. In many ways, this simply is a logical extension of some conservatives, who believe that government itself needs to be destroyed (or “drowned in a bathtub” to borrow a Grover Norquist term) Destroying a government function is seen as a GOOD THING by many Republicans, and they enthusiastically cheered Trump’s efforts in this area. Partly, it means more money for private companies and/or takeover by a private monopoly that can be controlled by an oligarch. If the public is harmed by these actions, or if they have to pay more, or if services are not provided to remote areas of the country; Tough shit. The point is to consolidate more money and power into the hands of a very few multi-billionaires. So to answer the question; Yes, DeJoy did create the USPS slowdown. This was his mandate. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/25 "2021-01-24T18:02:10Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@dtilque](#): > > > > Unfortunately, the President can’t directly fire the Postmaster General. He’s hired by the Postal Service Board of Directors (or whatever it’s called), so that body also has the firing power. And that body was all appointed by Trump, so they’re not going to fire him. > > LIke many of the departments under Trump, it seems that people were appointed whose primary task was to destroy the department itself. In many ways, this simply is a logical extension of some conservatives, who believe that government itself needs to be destroyed (or “drowned in a bathtub” to borrow a Grover Norquist term) > > Destroying a government function is seen as a GOOD THING by many Republicans, and they enthusiastically cheered Trump’s efforts in this area. Partly, it means more money for private companies and/or takeover by a private monopoly that can be controlled by an oligarch. > > If the public is harmed by these actions, or if they have to pay more, or if services are not provided to remote areas of the country; Tough shit. The point is to consolidate more money and power into the hands of a very few multi-billionaires. > > So to answer the question; Yes, DeJoy did create the USPS slowdown. This was his mandate… **Moderating** See **Chronos’s** mod note above. Stick to the facts about what he did. Commentary on political motivations is out of the scope of GQ. Since I think the factual question has mostly been answered, further political posts will lead this thread to be closed. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/26 "2021-01-24T18:04:14Z")
Apologies. I did not check the forum before I replied. Won’t happen again. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/27 "2021-01-24T18:06:11Z")
Thanks for the apology. It’s appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2023, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/28 "2023-03-24T00:53:16Z")
I came across an interesting article by TIME about DeJoy, which indicates that the Dems have appreciated some of his work in the past two years; notably, they don’t think they could have got a new health benefits and work terms for postal workers without DeJoy’s efforts to lobby the Republican Senators and Reps whose votes were needed. > [@](#): > > Louis DeJoy thought his workday was done as he arrived home one evening in February 2022. The Postmaster General was locked in a grueling, monthslong battle with Congress over a bill to shake up the Postal Service. But as he settled in, his cell phone rang and, pulling it out, he saw who was calling and could already guess why. It was Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. The second most powerful Democrat in America wanted to know how the whip count was coming. > > As it happened, the count was coming along very nicely. DeJoy may be best known as the Trump-era GOP megadonor the left accused of meddling with mail-in voting to subvert the 2020 election. **But by the time Schumer called him on that frigid winter night, DeJoy was on his way to convincing congressional Republicans—120 in the House and 29 in the Senate—to buy into a lengthy Democratic wish list of postal reforms. When President Joe Biden signed the landmark legislation into law two months later, it guaranteed a union-friendly version of six-day mail service and stabilized health coverage for the 650,000 USPS employees. “There’s no way we could have gotten [the] votes without Louis DeJoy,” says Jim Sauber, the chief of staff for the National Association of Letter Carriers at the time.** “That’s for sure.” > > The notion that DeJoy, 65, would help advance a key Democratic agenda item would have seemed unfathomable a few years ago. But to the astonishment of many in Washington, the man Democrats once denounced as a threat to American democracy has become one of their most important allies in government. **Defying the far right, he delivered more than 500 million COVID-19 test kits to Americans in the winter of 2022. Crossing conservatives last December, he agreed to transition the Postal Service’s entire fleet to electric vehicles by 2026.** DeJoy’s capstone collaboration with Democrats was the Postal Service Reform Act, which is arguably the most bipartisan piece of major legislation in the Biden era, drawing 10 more GOP Senate votes than the $1 trillion infrastructure bill. > … > DeJoy’s antagonists also started spreading allegations that he was whisking away sorting machines and iconic blue mailboxes to subvert the vote. **In fact, the USPS had been cutting back the boxes for decades because of the declining use of first-class mail and the sorting machines were obsolete and had been sitting under tarps, according to Amber McReynolds, a Biden appointee on the USPS Board of Governors.** McReynolds was, at the time, working closely with the Postal Service as CEO of the National Vote at Home Institute. **“I tried to correct disinformation as much as I could,” she says.** DeJoy was also accused in the press and by some in Congress of eliminating overtime for postal workers. Union leaders insist otherwise. **“Believe me, if they cut off overtime, our members would tell us,” says Sauber, the former senior postal union official.** > … > **Ultimately, voting by mail was a resounding success. DeJoy embraced a union idea to expedite mail ballot delivery and set up a panel to oversee election mail. As a record 43% of Americans voted by mail, the USPS handled more than 135 million mail ballots. Roughly 94% were processed on time, and 99% made it to election boards within a week.** “Look what happened,” McReynolds says. “We had the best delivery rates that we’ve ever had.” And the various allegtions of improper personal conduct? > [@](#): > > **Both the Federal Election Commission and the FBI closed investigations into him** related to campaign contributions, and the USPS Inspector General said **he met “all applicable ethics requirements related to disclosure, recusal, and divestment”** pertaining to his holdings with Postal Service contractors upon taking the job. Worth a read: > **[Louis DeJoy's Surprising Second Act](https://time.com/6263424/louis-dejoy-trump-election-postal-reform/)** > > Initially cast as a Trumpian villain, Louis DeJoy is quietly delivering for the Postal Service, and Democrats ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2023, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/29 "2023-03-24T01:25:06Z")
The article also contains material more directly relevant to this thread. > A month into the job, DeJoy made a consequential snap decision. He had learned that mail trucks were routinely leaving behind schedule, as drivers would wait for more mail to arrive. Even then, they were less than half full. DeJoy told his deputies to “run the trucks on time.” The decision was made in a style that even DeJoy’s defenders characterize as more befitting a corporate executive than a high-level bureaucrat. At first, it seemed to be going swimmingly. “I’m getting reports saying the trucks are running on time,” DeJoy recalls as he pumps his fists in the air and laughs. “Look at this—we’re doing great!” There was one problem. “Nobody’s telling me we’re not putting the mail on the trucks!” In the private world DeJoy came from, any Board of Directors worth speaking of could easily have fired such a CEO to the plaudits of everyone in their industry. The _Time_ article suggests that the USPS made a quick turnaround afterward so that the election was not affected. That may be. However the title of this thread is “Did DeJoy create the USPS slow down?” That answer appears to be yes. A different article might give a better answer for whether or not the slow down was deliberate or a political decision rather than incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/30 "2023-03-24T16:11:53Z")
They recently started cutting overtime again at my USPS plant, and we’ve gotten rid of a few more letter sorting machines since then. So it has been consistent. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/31 "2023-03-24T16:31:52Z")
Kinda funny. Encheapening the products and cutting the services are bog-standard CEO plays for (briefly) improving corporate profitability, juicing the share price, getting some adoring attention from the business press, then personally cashing out before it all comes crashing down. But as USPS chief, there is no “cashing out”. No stock options, etc. But this guy still has to run the same tired predictable play anyhow. So where is his payoff? If it’s under the table somewhere, _cui bono_? Or is he simply so limited as a manager that the one-trick pony is all there is? Either way it’s not a good situation for the USPS nor for the country. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2023, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/32 "2023-03-24T17:45:07Z")
That’s why people appointed to government positions very often are already so extremely wealthy that they feel they can sacrifice a few years of living on their investments to get the glory of serving their country. And a whole new set of connections, insider tips, and invitations to elite gatherings that make their after careers very pleasant indeed. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/33 "2023-03-24T18:00:12Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Or is he simply so limited as a manager that the one-trick pony is all there is? Possibly too, showing short term progress to the detriment of longer term is not limited to the private sector. I assume he was cutting costs, which was one of the goals he was given. Some measures, like the “trucks run on time” probably was at worst no better, but more likely did have a benefit - some mail arrived on time, although other mail might experience a day’s delay. Depends how much they were waiting for. If trucks were leaving empty, the schedule was the problem. (And rigid bureaucratic inflexibility). “Nobody’s telling me…” suggests part of the problem is the reporting structure. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2023, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/34 "2023-08-13T23:26:14Z")
Another update on DeJoye: > **[Louis DeJoy: From Trump villain to Biden’s clean energy buddy](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/13/how-louis-dejoy-went-from-democratic-nightmare-fuel-to-biden-clean-energy-player-00110945)** > > The postmaster general has struck up an unexpected partnership with the president’s green guru, John Podesta. > [@](#): > > Now, nearly three years later, DeJoy isn’t just still standing atop the U.S. Postal Service, he’s become a critical player in Biden’s environmental agenda, striking a partnership with the president’s green guru, John Podesta, as USPS considers an environmental renaissance of its fleet. > … > The pair’s partnership centers around an effort to introduce 66,000 electric vehicles to the USPS by 2028, itself part of a broader initiative to add 106,000 new vehicles to USPS’ fleet. The initiative was buoyed by $3 billion from the Inflation Reduction Act, a funding solution floated by the Biden administration, according to a person close to DeJoy who was granted anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the discussions. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/35 "2023-08-14T12:04:16Z")
Hadn’t he already scuttled a similar project a few years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135/36 "2023-08-14T22:58:50Z")
Not exactly. It was more that their previous plan to upgrade their fleet was weaksauce with respect to EVs (it was supposed to have been only 10% EVs). Whether that was intentional pushback, or a handout to Oshkosh, or budget-related, or something else (or a combination) was unclear. Regardless of the reason, it’s good to see DeJoy pivot to a more EV-friendly stance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dejoy-create-the-usps-slow-down/931135.md?page=1)