# Did Disney ripoff the show, "Kimba the white lion"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 30, 2005, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586 "2005-10-30T11:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BluePitbull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@BluePitbull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BluePitbull)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/1 "2005-10-30T11:30:51Z")
Does this affect anyones enjoyment of the Lion King? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/2 "2005-10-30T13:49:32Z")
Rip off? Mmmm, yeah, a bit. I’m old enough to remember Kimba (and Tobor the 8th Man, and Gigantor, and Marine Boy and Speed Racer, etc.), and I recalled the parallels. Disney also ripped off Shakespeare’s “Hamlet.” I wasn’t terribly outraged by either theft, and enjoyed “The Lion King” anyway. Despite my lack of outrage, if the Japanese animators who created Kimba sued Disney and I were on the jury… I’d vote to jive the Japanese a nice chunk of Disney’s “Lion King” money. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/3 "2005-10-30T13:52:41Z")
[Did Disney’s The Lion King rip off an old Japanese TV series? (24-Dec-1999)](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a991224.html) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/4 "2005-10-30T14:00:24Z")
Oh, I have a great T-shirt that I bought from a well-known anime distributor (whose name escapes me – nice catalogue). It shows a _Snow White_-style mirror with Simba in it. Kimba is walking in front of the mirror and is shocked to see the reflection. The caption is **The Lyin’ King**. I think it also says ‘Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who dreated me, after all?’ But it’s been a while since I’ve seen the shirt. It’s packed away somewhere. I wore it once to Disneyland. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/5 "2005-10-30T17:25:51Z")
Frankly, while I think that the plots are similar - it’s no more a theft than many other stories are. I had far more trouble forgetting what I know of the reality of lion pride genetics, and social function. ---
**Author:** ![BluePitbull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@BluePitbull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BluePitbull)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/6 "2005-10-30T17:40:05Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > Frankly, while I think that the plots are similar - it’s no more a theft than many other stories are. > > I had far more trouble forgetting what I know of the reality of lion pride genetics, and social function. What is the reality of “lion pride genetics, and social function” ? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/7 "2005-10-30T18:05:01Z")
> [@](#): > > What is the reality of “lion pride genetics, and social function” ? The alpha lion (Mustafa) keeps a harem of females and sires all their cubs. So Simba and Nala would be half-siblings. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/8 "2005-10-30T20:38:35Z")
What about the fact that _The Lion King_ is basically \*Hamlet \*in faux fur? Does this mean that Disney stole more heavily from Shakespeare? Or that the makers of \*Kimba \*got no leg to stand on regarding reliance on previous sources? “Hey, we stole it first!” Not having seen \*Kimba \*for myself, I have drawn no conclusion. Just saying that an obvious source older than both works seems to complicate the issue a tad. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/9 "2005-10-30T20:38:48Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > [Did Disney’s The Lion King rip off an old Japanese TV series? (24-Dec-1999)](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a991224.html) I love Cecil, but in this case I think he’s wrong. While it’s true that Lion King and Kimba share a basic plot with Bambi and Hamlet there are just too many other simularities to be simply a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/10 "2005-10-30T20:41:22Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > The alpha lion (Mustafa) keeps a harem of females and sires all their cubs. So Simba and Nala would be half-siblings. Yeah but beyond that, the “lessons” taught in TLK–like Disney’s [Dinosaur](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0130623/combined)–are unscientific to the point of being _anti_scientific. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/11 "2005-10-30T23:31:31Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > I love Cecil, but in this case I think he’s wrong. While it’s true that Lion King and Kimba share a basic plot with Bambi and Hamlet there are just too many other simularities to be simply a coincidence. Yeah I gotta agree – he fell for a logical - but flawed diversion put out by the folks who didn’t want to pay up. If I were on a jury I’d give Tezuka Osamu $1.00 and make Disney own up the huge debt the Lion King Story owes Kimba Besides the points Cecil mentions (I can’t reach his link of 10) Kimba is guided by Polly Parrott and Daniel Baboon. Timon and Pumba (a meerkat and a warthog) take over these roles in the Lion King, still the primary non-lion Characters at Pride Rock … are a baboon and a parrot I could go on and on. FWIW [this site](http://www.kimbawlion.com/rant2.htm) has alot of still shots and a video sequence where you can see the opening scenes side by side. They allege … but don’t prove that Disney was interested in the rights to Kimba, but it was tied up… so this re-make/re-imagining is instead this: “ **No one at Disney had ever even HEARD of Kimba** ” even though animation is our business, many of us even study in post secondary schools, and Osamu was a well known animator, and Kimba was on 10,0000 TV stations while the Lion King animators were growing up. The denial in itself is so categorical as to be ridiculous - maybe Lawyers. Maybe something else. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/12 "2005-10-30T23:39:39Z")
Who lives down in deepest darkest Africa? (Africa) Who’s the one who brought the jungle fame? (Ooo-ooo-ooo) Who’s the king of animals in Africa? (Africa) Kimba the White Lion is his name! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/13 "2005-10-30T23:52:17Z")
I want to thank you all. There has been something nagging me about Simba for many years now. I think I vaguely remember Kimba (we didn’t get a TV until I was 8–so 1970)–I think I may have seen Kimba. Simba seemed so familiar to me, but I couldn’t place it (finally thought maybe I was thinking of Sambo and the tiger story)–but Kimba rings a bell now. Was there a controversy when the movie came out? I don’t remember any. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/14 "2005-10-31T00:15:11Z")
> [@BluePitbull](#): > > What is the reality of “lion pride genetics, and social function” ? As **Little Nemo** has said Simba and Nala would be half siblings. What’s more to the point, to my mind, however, is that it is routine when the pride’s male (And there’s almost always just one adult male in any pride; there are very occaisional instances of groups of two or three male adult lions sharing the leadership roles in a pack, after having bonded together during their adolescent years.) is replaced by trial by combat the new male will kill **all** the cubs younger than about 1 and a half years of age. So, considering that Nala is an agemate of Simba’s, she’d have been killed by Scar. As would Simba himself. There’d be no need for Scar to actually make up stories about what happened to Simba, since killing him would be expected. As is killing Mufasa. I happened to do a paper in HS about the differences between the social organization of lion prides and wolf packs. Most of this information is remembered from a SciAm article of the mid-80’s, but [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion) at least supports the basics I have here. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/15 "2005-10-31T00:44:28Z")
_Aren’t_ Simba and Nala half-siblings? I always assumed they were. Who’s Nala’s dad then? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/16 "2005-10-31T05:28:27Z")
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The Lion King is a '90’s version of BAMBI. Watch Bambi and then watch The Lion King. I dare you! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/17 "2005-10-31T05:50:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Aren’t Simba and Nala half-siblings? I always assumed they were. Who’s Nala’s dad then? Nala’s dad is Mustafa. Simba and Nala had different mothers. Hey, an incestous love angle, James Earl Jones, a disfigured villain - maybe Disney was ripping off Star Wars. > [@](#): > > What about the fact that The Lion King is basically Hamlet in faux fur? Does this mean that Disney stole more heavily from Shakespeare? Or that the makers of Kimba got no leg to stand on regarding reliance on previous sources? “Hey, we stole it first!” > > Not having seen Kimba for myself, I have drawn no conclusion. Just saying that an obvious source older than both works seems to complicate the issue a tad. I haven’t read _Hamlet_ in a few years but I’m pretty sure Shakespeare didn’t have any lions in the original. Sure, both works were based on _Hamlet_. But the similarities between _The Jungle Emperor_ and _The Lion King_ go a lot farther than the source material. Both works have the same animals cast in the same roles (lions=main cast, hyenas=villains, monkey=wise advisor, bird=annoying advisor), there’s the similarities in the names, there’s even numerous examples of the same shots being used in both movies. As for the denials, they basically consist of the Disney people admitting many of them had seen the original but saying they hadn’t paid any attention. Tom Sito claims that because he no longer works for Disney he has no reason to lie - which overlooks the damage it would do to his reputation if he admitted he stole other animators’ work. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/18 "2005-10-31T05:57:50Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Nala’s dad is Mustafa. Simba and Nala had different mothers. Well, that’s what I thought. So why did they say above that _The Lion King_ ignored actual lion pride workings? ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/19 "2005-10-31T06:06:21Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > Well, that’s what I thought. So why did they say above that _The Lion King_ ignored actual lion pride workings? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6741767&postcount=14](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6741767&postcount=14) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586/20 "2005-10-31T06:33:49Z")
> [@](#): > > So why did they say above that The Lion King ignored actual lion pride workings? Maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall any mention in the movie about Simba and Nala’s romance involving incest. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-disney-ripoff-the-show-kimba-the-white-lion/328586.md?page=2)