# Did Dutch secular progressives expel their enemies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 2013, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dutch-secular-progressives-expel-their-enemies/668061 "2013-09-05T09:16:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dutch-secular-progressives-expel-their-enemies/668061/21 "2013-09-06T08:50:30Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Nobody is defending _their_ racism. I, for one, however, am concerned about _your_ racism in ascribing theirs to to the fact that they are of Dutch descent. This is ridiculous, given that I made my admiration of today’s Dutch population quite clear. And assuming the detailed account in \*\*Qadgop’s \*\*link is not some kind of total fabrication (which strikes me as vanishingly unlikely), Dutch emigrants to the U.S. were indeed by and large unrepresentative of the Dutch population overall and were instead a distinctly reactionary sliver of that population (emphases mine): > [@](#): > > **The Seceders of 1834 and 1857 shared a deep concern for this creeping liberalism in the Reformed Church**.[…]For most people in the pew, loyalty to the church overrode their concerns and they remained within it; like lobsters in the pot they were oblivious to the danger. But a minority felt compelled, for conscience sake, to try to reform the church and failing that, to withdraw or be expelled.[…] > King Willem I meanwhile condemned the unauthorized worship services of the Seceders and demanded that they dissolve their organization, obey the law, and submit to the “established and recognized church.” The king denouncing them as schismatics, fomenters of unrest, and secret agitators.[…] > Government officials moved to quell the Separatist movement by expelling the rebel clerics and levying heavy fines and even jail terms for their civil disobedience.[…] > **In 1849 Seceders numbered only 1.3 percent of the Dutch population, but they contributed two-thirds of all emigrants from the Netherlands in the peak years of Seceder emigration–1846 thru 1849. The intense and focused migration of this religious minority, therefore, gave them a strong presence in the Midwest that was far out of proportion to their numbers.** ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dutch-secular-progressives-expel-their-enemies/668061/22 "2013-09-06T08:57:48Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I’ve never heard of this “Hamas, Juden” thing, so I can’t comment on that. It’s a football chorus thing. Ajax one of the leading clubs is from Amsterdam, which historicaly had a large Jewish population. Ajax has always been called a ‘Joden club’ by other football fans and the Amsterdam club even wore that with pride. ‘Hamas Hamas! Alle Joden aan het gas!’ is a semi-recent harshening of the earlier chant of ‘Joden! Joden!’, which officials tried hard to ban. Though offensive, I regard it more as a tribal football thingy. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dutch-secular-progressives-expel-their-enemies/668061/23 "2013-09-06T09:09:22Z")
Ah, thanks for providing that context. Yeah, it seems like more a case of tribal sports fans being unthinking meatheads rather than a real considered case of anti-Semitism. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dutch-secular-progressives-expel-their-enemies/668061/24 "2013-09-06T09:10:54Z")
I think I should add that the chant is, as far as I know, only busied by Amsterdam’s traditional rivals from Rotterdam. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-dutch-secular-progressives-expel-their-enemies/668061.md?page=1)