# Did Edwardians have All Day To Clean Silverware? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 19, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722 "2013-12-19T14:27:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/1 "2013-12-19T14:27:08Z")
I was given a beautiful Edwardian silver (solid) tea set by my mother. I cleaned it up and put it in the china cabinet-a year later, it is all tarnished. These things need a LOT of cleaning! I know that the Edwardians had servants to keep the silver polished-so, did they really use these things? (Or like my mother, only take it out a few times a year)? ---
**Author:** ![peedin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peedin/32/14095_2.png) [@peedin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peedin)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/2 "2013-12-19T14:38:45Z")
Cleaning a year’s worth of tarnish at once is a lot more time-consuming than doing a quick clean every day. The silver tea service was used daily in olden times. So when the maid washed the pieces, she most likely gave them a once over with the cleaning pumice. And remember to count the silver after each meal! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/3 "2013-12-19T14:39:50Z")
Polishing silver is what servants are _for_, dear boy. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/4 "2013-12-19T14:43:20Z")
> [@peedin](#): > > Cleaning a year’s worth of tarnish at once is a lot more time-consuming than doing a quick clean every day. The silver tea service was used daily in olden times. So when the maid washed the pieces, she most likely gave them a once over with the cleaning pumice. And remember to count the silver after each meal! Somehow this rubs me the wrong way, I don’t think the maid or kitchen skivvy would be entrusted to polishing the silver. I seem to recall Hudson on Upstairs, Downstairs doing this job. He had a lot of time to do so, during the day. ---
**Author:** ![Chicken\_Fingers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Chicken\_Fingers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicken_Fingers)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/5 "2013-12-19T14:54:11Z")
Normally, a servant would be quickly wiping the silver daily. Serious cleaning and polishing would be more seasonal. When I worked in a restaurant that used silver we wiped every utensil daily before the restaurant opened. I think it was sent out to be burnished once a year. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/6 "2013-12-19T15:17:16Z")
Note that in Edwardian times, it wasn’t just the nobility who had servants. Basically everyone except for the very poorest had one or more servants, who were paid a decent wage. See this story from yesterday’s episode of the public radio program Marketplace. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/7 "2013-12-19T17:17:07Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Note that in Edwardian times, it wasn’t just the nobility who had servants. Basically everyone except for the very poorest had one or more servants, who were paid a decent wage. See this story from yesterday’s episode of the public radio program Marketplace. But the “very poorest” was a huge percentage of the population. The percent of households in the U.S. with servants was about 7% in 1900. (From an article in the January 2014 Harper’s, which also points out that a servant’s wages of 4 cents an hour is something like $5.00/hour today.) That would have included the great bulk of the middle class. Even if the English had a higher percentage, it couldn’t have been very much higher: the middle class as we know it today didn’t exist yet. It couldn’t. At least half the population would have been farmers. The industrial working class was therefore less than a majority, which is where most of the servants came from in those days. There were some people straight from the farm, especially on country estates, but most households were in cities and people already familiar with city living would have been preferred. And yes, like pearls, silver is meant to be used daily. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/8 "2013-12-19T17:21:33Z")
Keep silver in “silver cloth” a brown cloth that has silver particles in it. It won’t tarnish. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/9 "2013-12-19T18:20:12Z")
\*In her memoirs, Before The Sunset Fades (1953), Daphne Fielding, ex-Marchioness of Bath, detailed the forty-three member staff employed at Longleat during the Edwardian era: One House Steward One Butler One Under Butler One Groom of the Chambers One Valet Three Footmen One Steward’s Room Footman Two Oddmen Two Pantry Boys One Lamp Boy One Housekeeper Two Lady’s Maids One Nurse One Nursery Maid Eight Housemaids Two Sewing Maids Two Still Room Maids Six Laundry Maids One Chef Two Kitchen Maids One Vegetable Maid One Scullery Maid One Daily Woman Such a large staff was not typical amongst all great country houses, but the scope and scale of the house, not to mention the entertainments and house parties and fetes held on the estate, required a large staff of mostly invisible employees to keep everything humming along. Outside staff usually comprised of coachmen, grooms, stable boys, gardeners, gamekeepers, and later the chauffeur/mechanic. Some households even hired their own dairymaids, who churned the butter, milked the cows (though some localities employed cowkeepers for this task), watched the cheeses, and made the cream. If there were no chef (usually male, always French), there was a cook (a woman, always British)… \* > **[Domestic Servants in Edwardian England](https://www.edwardianpromenade.com/servants-2/domestic-servants-in-edwardian-england/)** > > I can’t believe I’ve never written a post about servants on this website, but since there are so many other websites and books out there who’ve covered the subject in much more de… I have no idea which one would have been assigned silverware cleaning duty. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/10 "2013-12-19T18:25:43Z")
The radio story I mentioned was about a woman who recently wrote a [book](http://www.amazon.com/Servants-Downstairs-View-Twentieth-century-Britain-ebook/dp/B009IRPE4S) about servants in Britain during the twentieth century. She mentions that in large houses such as that, some of the servants actually served the higher-level servants. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/11 "2013-12-19T19:14:17Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Somehow this rubs me the wrong way, I don’t think the maid or kitchen skivvy would be entrusted to polishing the silver. I seem to recall Hudson on Upstairs, Downstairs doing this job. He had a lot of time to do so, during the day. At least a footman probably. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/12 "2013-12-19T19:26:24Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > But the “very poorest” was a huge percentage of the population. The percent of households in the U.S. with servants was about 7% in 1900. (From an article in the January 2014 Harper’s, which also points out that a servant’s wages of 4 cents an hour is something like $5.00/hour today.) That would have included the great bulk of the middle class. Even if the English had a higher percentage, it couldn’t have been very much higher: the middle class as we know it today didn’t exist yet. It couldn’t. At least half the population would have been farmers. The industrial working class was therefore less than a majority, which is where most of the servants came from in those days. There were some people straight from the farm, especially on country estates, but most households were in cities and people already familiar with city living would have been preferred. > > And yes, like pearls, silver is meant to be used daily. 🙂 According to the book “Millionaire Households And Their Domestic Economy”, published in 1903, the silver is usually in the charge of the butler, and polished by footmen. The average wage for a housemaid is about $20/month, a “dining hall” maid (for the servant’s dining room) made $16/mo, a parlor maid is about $25/month, head laundress is $30/mo and the under-laundresses $18/mo, “Useful man” (who apparently does what anyone asks and is a saint) $35/mo, lady’s maid made $35/mo, the "superintending housekeeper (head staff, all staff report to her) could make $50 - $150/mo. Private chef - $100/mo (but they usually didn’t live in, so had more expenses) Although their wages were low, servants in great houses lived in and ate their meals courtesy of their employer. As for silver polishing, silver was under the aegis of the butler, and polished in the morning by the footmen. StG ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/13 "2013-12-19T19:41:32Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Somehow this rubs me the wrong way, I don’t think the maid or kitchen skivvy would be entrusted to polishing the silver. I seem to recall Hudson on Upstairs, Downstairs doing this job. He had a lot of time to do so, during the day. Actually, it was Edward the footman’s job. When he went off to WWI, his wife Daisy took it over and said it made her think about him. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/14 "2013-12-19T19:51:43Z")
“When my rubies get dirty,” said the first matron," I clean them in milk." “When my emeralds get dirty,” said the second matron, “I clean them in champagne.” “Well,” said the third and youngest matron, “when my diamonds get dirty, I just throws them away.” ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/15 "2013-12-20T07:57:56Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > According to the book “Millionaire Households And Their Domestic Economy”, published in 1903, the silver is usually in the charge of the butler, and polished by footmen. StG I seem to remember in the book Remains of the Day that Stevens, the butler, was in charge of a relatively small staff, and delegated the silver polishing to the maids, although he did keep a strict eye on them. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/16 "2013-12-20T08:13:08Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > \*In her memoirs, Before The Sunset Fades (1953), Daphne Fielding, ex-Marchioness of Bath, detailed the forty-three member staff employed at Longleat during the Edwardian era: > > One House Steward > One Butler > One Under Butler > One Groom of the Chambers > One Valet > Three Footmen > One Steward’s Room Footman > Two Oddmen > Two Pantry Boys > One Lamp Boy > > One Housekeeper > Two Lady’s Maids > One Nurse > One Nursery Maid > Eight Housemaids > Two Sewing Maids > Two Still Room Maids > Six Laundry Maids > > One Chef > Two Kitchen Maids > One Vegetable Maid > One Scullery Maid > One Daily Woman > > Such a large staff was not typical amongst all great country houses, but the scope and scale of the house, not to mention the entertainments and house parties and fetes held on the estate, required a large staff of mostly invisible employees to keep everything humming along. Outside staff usually comprised of coachmen, grooms, stable boys, gardeners, gamekeepers, and later the chauffeur/mechanic. Some households even hired their own dairymaids, who churned the butter, milked the cows (though some localities employed cowkeepers for this task), watched the cheeses, and made the cream. If there were no chef (usually male, always French), there was a cook (a woman, always British)… \* > > [Domestic Servants in Edwardian England – Edwardian Promenade](http://www.edwardianpromenade.com/people/domestic-servants-in-edwardian-england/) > > I have no idea which one would have been assigned silverware cleaning duty. This reminds me of some rich person (it may have been Lord Curzon) who in his advancing years was rattling around in a huge house with a correspondingly huge staff. Because money was starting to run low – relatively speaking, we’re not talking about selling bootlaces in the street to make ends meet – he had an accountant in to go over the books, and that worthy was looking at staffing levels in the Curzon household. He noticed one item that seemed a little frivolous: a pastrycook. When challenged on this, Curzon gave him a disgusted look and said “My God, so it has come to this: a chap can’t have a biscuit with his port any more”. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/17 "2013-12-20T09:04:43Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > She mentions that in large houses such as that, some of the servants actually served the higher-level servants. Yes, servants in training in the grand houses or the royal family. The late Queen Mother’s favourite servant started off that way. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-edwardians-have-all-day-to-clean-silverware/676722/18 "2013-12-20T16:27:03Z")
In the United States, a housekeeper was generally the top position in staff, while in the UK a butler was the highest staff position, while the housekeeper (over the female servants) reported to him). Some of the attitudes in the book I quoted above are pretty enlightened - the author was a head housekeeper for the Vanderbilts. She thought it was very unfair that the maids were paid less than the footmen. She also thought that servants should have decent living conditions. > [@](#): > > Inconsequent people seem to think, if they think at all, that servants can get along anyhow, anywhere, hang themselves up on doors over night, and go without bathing, or a convenient, comfortable place to change their clothes. You find guest chambers with private bath-rooms, spacious, airy sleeping rooms, — no crowding anywhere — until you come to the quarters of those who really need comforts and more bathing conveniences than any one else in the house, since they have so much to do, — must soil themselves about their work; and have less time for their toilets than any of the leisured class whom they are serving. It’s really a very interesting read. StG