# Did FDR know about the attack on Pearl Harbor beforehand? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2000, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-fdr-know-about-the-attack-on-pearl-harbor-beforehand/21072 "2000-06-01T02:41:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-fdr-know-about-the-attack-on-pearl-harbor-beforehand/21072/61 "2000-12-13T00:09:02Z")
The words “appears for all the world to be” were directed at my debating opponent at the time, and were intended to be sarcastic. I shouldn’t have simply cut and pasted from the old thread, attitude intact, since you guys don’t have all the surrounding background to explain the tone of the post. Therefore, let me rephrase: \*\*The following _is_ \*\* an excerpt from a declassified Top Secret memorandum of hearings conducted back in 1944 on Pearl Harbor. Insert previously posted text here, starting at “[1] 1. General.” and ending at "the right alert. ", minus “Well fancy that” , it is all from the original document. As for the source, as I stated and as you can see, it’s the Purdue U’s History dept. Having gone to teh website and poked around, it is quite obvious that this is a RICH source of info to answer the OP’s question, since it is all about it. Quote from Chapter 1: > [@](#): > > Title Page > > REPORT OF ARMY PEARL HARBOR BOARD > > Appointed by the Secretary of War, pursuant to the Provisions of Public Law 339, 78th Congress, approved 13 June 1944, to ascertain and report the facts relating to the attack made by Japanese armed forces upon the Territory of Hawaii on 7 December 1941, and make such recommendations as it may deem proper. Also, to consider the phrases which related to the Pearl Harbor disaster of the report of House Military Affairs Committee, as directed by the Acting Secretary of War, in his memorandum for the Judge Advocate General, 12 July 1944. > Table of Contents Page > > Chapter I: Preamble: Authority for the Army Pearl Harbor > Board and its action taken . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 > Chapter II: Background . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > Chapter III: The Story of Pearl Harbor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55 > Chapter IV: Responsibilities in Washington . . . . . . . . . . . . 218 > Chapter V: Wyman and Construction Delays in Hawaii . . . . . . . 242 > Chapter VI: Conclusions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 294 > Chapter VII: Recommendations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 304 > > Legends: > RR - Roberts Record > R - APHB Record > D - Document > Ex - Exhibit > > Underscoring ours unless otherwise stated. (Underscoring replaced by > pairs of asterisks in the electronic text.) > > Page 1 > > Chapter I > Preamble: Authority for the Army Pearl Harbor Board and its action > taken. > > This Board was appointed pursuant to the provisions of Public Law 339, 78th Congress, approved 13 June 1944, by Letter Order A.G.O. 8 July 1944 (AGPO-A-A 210.311 (24 Jun 44)) as amended by Letter Order A.G.O. 11 July 1944 (AGPO-A-A 210.311 (10 Jun 44)) and Letter A.G.O. 22 August 1944 (AGPO-A-A 248.7 (2 Aug 44)), and as supplemented by Supplemental Letter Order A.G.O. 22 July 1944 (AGPO-A-A 210.311 (21 July 44)) which order made reference to a memorandum for The Judge Advocate General of 12 July 1944 – Subject: Report of House Military Affairs Committee dated 14 June 1944 alleging neglect and misconduct of Colonel Theodore Wyman, Jr., and others concerning Hawaiian and Canadian Defense Projects, and which was signed by Robert P. Patterson, Acting Secretary of War. This supplemental order directed the Board to consider the phase of the report which related to the Pearl Harbor disaster. [1] > > Composition of the board: > > Lt. Gen. George Grunert, 01534, USA > Maj. Gen. Henry D. Russell, 0212769, USA > Maj. Gen. Walter H. Frank, 02871, USA > Col. Charles W. West, 012774, JAGD, Recorder (without vote) > Col. Harry A. Toulmin, 0205520, AC, Executive Officer (without vote) > Maj. Henry C. Clausen, 0907613, JAGD, Assistant Recorder (without vote) > Footnotes: > [1] See copies of orders and memorandum, Exhibits 65 to 69, inclusive > > Page 2 > > The Board interpreted these orders and the memorandum referred to as > confining its investigation to the Pearl Harbor disaster. > > The Board convened 20 July 1944 and was in continuous session from 24 July 1944 to 20 October 1944. It held hearings twice in Washington, D.C.; twice in San Francisco, California; and in Hawaii. It has heard a total of 151 witnesses and has interviewed many additional potential witnesses whom it found did not have any pertinent information. There has been no available document, witness, suggestion or lead which promised any materiality that has not been carefully investigated by this Board. Every witness has been invited to give, in addition to his testimony, any suggestions, opinions, leads to evidence, or any other information that might possibly be pertinent. It has been our purpose, and we believe we have effected it, to explore every available piece of information on this subject. We have not had the opportunity, nor the organization, to comb personally and exhaustively the official files, but we have called for the pertinent letters, documents, and memoranda. We believe that practically all of them have been secured, although we have found a few files from which important and vital papers are missing. In many instances we found these document s elsewhere or were > able to prove them through copies in other hands. I think you get the picture. For those who are truly interested, I suggest you follow the link and start at “Army board”. Stoid ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-fdr-know-about-the-attack-on-pearl-harbor-beforehand/21072/62 "2000-12-13T00:15:20Z")
> [@](#): > > t appears for all the world to be an excerpt from a declassified Top Secret memorandum of hearings conducted back in 1944 on Pearl Harbor. For the record: The hearings reported on the Purdue site were public hearings conducted in 1945 and 1946. > [@](#): > > INTRODUCTORY STATEMENT > > On November 15, 1945 the Joint Congressional Committee on the Investigation of the Pearl Harbor Attack held its first public hearings pursuant to Senate Concurrent Resolution No. 27, Seventy-Ninth Congress, first session, as follows: [1] > > IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES > > September 6, 1945 > > Mr. BARKLEY submitted the follow concurrent resolution, which was considered, modified, and agreed to > > SEPTEMBER 11, 1945 > > House concurs (There is a later reference to hearings from “On 70 days subsequent to November 15 and prior to and including May 31, 1945, open hearings were conducted” which suggests an earlier date, but _all_ of the other references indicate the fall of 1945 and winter/spring of 1946. My guess is that “May 31, 1945” is a typo intended to be 1946.) If these public hearings had produced actual proof that FDR had committed treason, what are the odds that that would have been a “non-issue” in the 1948 presidential race? (Or the 1946 congressional races?) ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-fdr-know-about-the-attack-on-pearl-harbor-beforehand/21072/63 "2000-12-13T01:21:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*[ > If these public hearings had produced actual proof that FDR had committed treason, what are the odds that that would have been a “non-issue” in the 1948 presidential race? (Or the 1946 congressional races?) \*\* I have no idea…maybe because he was dead? Oh, and it says the MEMORANDUM was top secret, not the hearings themselves… In any case, I don’t really care one way or the other. You guys can duke it out, I just thought I’d provide the info to add to the discussion. I took it up with Monty last year because he was practically insisting that I made it up out of whole cloth, and that annoyed me. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-fdr-know-about-the-attack-on-pearl-harbor-beforehand/21072/64 "2000-12-13T01:28:46Z")
Tom & wevets: Thanks for pointing out the incredible and ridiculous bu…er, horsehockey Stoidela deigned to post, yet again, as fact, although it was, and remains, incredible and ridiculous horsehockey. At any rate, The History Channel just aired a rather interesting documentary: “Tora, Tora, Tora: the Real Story of Pearl Harbor.” Said documentary related some of what other posters here mentioned (that it was obvious war was imminent) and also that NOBODY KNEW THAT THE COMBINED FLEET WOULD ATTACK PEARL HARBOR. [I mention this only because Stoidela evidently (in the previous thread) got heer “info” from television and movies.] What the heck, since she brought it up: 1. If your prior assertion that FDR wanted the US in the war because it was the very definition of a righteous war given the big meanies over in Europe, is true, why didn’t FDR merely point out what was happening in Europe? Please provide the very dates that FDR knew about the camps and what, exactly, was happening there. 2. Please provide FDR’s rationale for staying out of the righteous war for any time whatsoever after discovering what was happening in Europe. 3. Please explain why FDR kept the true situation in Europe secret from the American populace when, as you say, he wanted them whipped into a frenzy to support getting into the war. 4. Please explain why FDR wanted to get folks so whipped up, when he was, according to you, keeping the reason for said frenzy secret from said folks. 5. Please explain why FDR would even consider being an accomplice in mass murder of his own country-men. Or, even better, Recant the crap you keep posting about this issue when it’s demonstrably false. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-fdr-know-about-the-attack-on-pearl-harbor-beforehand/21072/65 "2000-12-13T01:53:40Z")
Brilliant, Monty! Truly, you have utterly obliterated Stoidy’s case, truly, a premise by premise evisceration, except for one **little** detail,… She didn’t say any of that. God, this is the thread that rose from the dead, I definitively nailed this sucker like 6 months ago. But I looked through, just to be sure. You have clearly refuted an argument that, best I can tell, nobody made. Roosevelt deliberately started WWII to save the Jews from Auschwitz? Ahhh, yes, because his real name was **Rosenfeld** , and he was acting in concert with the Illuminati, black helicopter, LSD in the water, and furthermore… By golly, you’re right! That **is** bullshit! But its not **her** bullshit! An adjustment in medication may be in order. ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-fdr-know-about-the-attack-on-pearl-harbor-beforehand/21072/66 "2000-12-13T02:59:02Z")
I believe Billy Mitchell forsaw Japans invasion in the 1920s. Don’t remember the whole story but he was convicted of insubordination and resigned in 1926. ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-fdr-know-about-the-attack-on-pearl-harbor-beforehand/21072/67 "2000-12-13T03:32:05Z")
[http://www.thehistorynet.com/AviationHistory/articles/1997/0997\_text.htm](http://www.thehistorynet.com/AviationHistory/articles/1997/0997_text.htm) Read about it ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-fdr-know-about-the-attack-on-pearl-harbor-beforehand/21072/68 "2000-12-20T00:53:54Z")
Elucidator: Please review the “People Hunting” thread again, this time paying attention to what was said, especially Diane’s comment about Stoidela’s comments there, and you will see that my comment above is valid. Regarding medication: Please contact your optician to see if he has those glasses you’ll probably need to see through your gluteus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-fdr-know-about-the-attack-on-pearl-harbor-beforehand/21072.md?page=3)