# Did Ford and Carter serve in WWII? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 26, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415 "2005-09-26T01:28:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/1 "2005-09-26T01:28:17Z")
I think Jimmy might have been at Annapolis before the war was over, which would put him in some kind of military uniform at least during WWII but I don’t know about Ford. He was old enough, I suppose, but I don’t remember. If so, I can claim that every President between 1933 and 1993 served in the armed forces during WWII (counting FDR and Truman serving as Commander-in-Chief) but if not Ford and not Carter that’s really not all that amazing a fact. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/2 "2005-09-26T01:35:08Z")
From the Gerald R. Ford Museum and Library’s website: > [@](#): > > After returning to Michigan and passing his bar exam, Ford and a University of Michigan fraternity brother, Philip A. Buchen (who later served on Ford’s White House staff as Counsel to the President), set up a law partnership in Grand Rapids. He also taught a course in business law at the University of Grand Rapids and served as line coach for the school’s football team. He had just become active in a group of reform-minded Republicans in Grand Rapids, calling themselves the Home Front, who were interested in challenging the hold of local political boss Frank McKay, when the United States entered World War II. > > In April 1942 Ford joined the U.S. Naval Reserve receiving a commission as an ensign. After an orientation program at Annapolis, he became a physical fitness instructor at a pre- flight school in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. In the spring of 1943 he began service in the light aircraft carrier USS MONTEREY. He was first assigned as athletic director and gunnery division officer, then as assistant navigator, with the MONTEREY which took part in most of the major operations in the South Pacific, including Truk, Saipan, and the Philippines. His closest call with death came not as a result of enemy fire, however, but during a vicious typhoon in the Philippine Sea in December 1944. He came within inches of being swept overboard while the storm raged. The ship, which was severely damaged by the storm and the resulting fire, had to be taken out of service. Ford spent the remainder of the war ashore and was discharged as a lieutenant commander in February 1946. From the Carter Museum’s wesbite > [@](#): > > He was educated in the Plains public schools, attended Georgia Southwestern College and the Georgia Institute of Technology, and received a B.S. degree from the United States Naval Academy in 1946. In the Navy he became a submariner, serving in both the Atlantic and Pacific fleets and rising to the rank of lieutenant. Chosen by Admiral Hyman Rickover for the nuclear submarine program, he was assigned to Schenectady, N.Y., where he took graduate work at Union College in reactor technology and nuclear physics, and served as senior officer of the pre-commissioning crew of the Seawolf. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/3 "2005-09-26T01:49:53Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > (counting FDR and Truman serving as Commander-in-Chief) I don’t think you can count them. They were in charge of the Armed Forces, not of them. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/4 "2005-09-26T02:27:21Z")
Cadets and midshipmen aen’t considered members of the military. They don’t receive a commission until after they graduate. This doesn’t detract at all from Carter’s honorable service, just to point out that the timelines are off in his case. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/5 "2005-09-26T03:22:22Z")
Hmmm… Now that I think about it, and reading this thread, it seems to me that service in the Navy has become quite a bit more common for Presidents. It’s my understanding that Kennedy was the first President to have been in the Navy, but since him, Johnson (I think), Nixon, Ford, Carter, and the first Bush were all Navy guys. Also, I recall reading that Truman was a colonel in the National Guard until he rather suddenly became Commander-in-Chief. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/6 "2005-09-26T03:54:42Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > Also, I recall reading that Truman was a colonel in the National Guard until he rather suddenly became Commander-in-Chief. Truman served in the Field Artillery in France during WWI. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/7 "2005-09-26T04:42:14Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Cadets and midshipmen aen’t considered members of the military. Wrong. This from the [US Military Academy website](http://admissions.usma.edu/overview.cfm) > [@](#): > > As a young man or woman considering your options for obtaining a quality college education, you may wonder what unique aspects the United States Military Academy has to offer. West Point offers one of the most highly respected, quality education programs in the nation. A West Point cadetship includes a fully funded four-year college education. Tuition, room, board, medical and dental care are provided by the U.S. Army. **As members of the Armed Forces, cadets also receive an annual salary of more than $6,500.** [bold added] This pay covers the cost of uniforms, books, a personal computer, and living incidentals. By law, graduates of West Point are appointed on active duty as commissioned officers and serve in the U.S. Army for a minimum of five years. Without even looking it up I can be confident that the same applies to both the Naval and Air Force Academies. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/8 "2005-09-26T05:00:55Z")
Actually, I think I’ve heard recently that the Naval Academy has switched over to only granting reserve status (yet, of course, on active duty) to its graduates. I cannot find anything on the Naval Academy’s website that says anything positive one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/9 "2005-09-26T05:56:57Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > Actually, I think I’ve heard recently that the Naval Academy has switched over to only granting reserve status (yet, of course, on active duty) to its graduates. I cannot find anything on the Naval Academy’s website that says anything positive one way or the other. I find that highly questionable. Being a graduate of the Naval Academy is the _ne plus ultra_ in the Navy. Navy Reserves, sad to say, are OK but definitely not members of the Club. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/10 "2005-09-26T06:43:00Z")
By Jove it looks like you might just possibly be right. That would mean I’m wrong which is highly unusual, not to mention unpleasant. Here’s what the Naval Academy website says: > [@](#): > > As the undergraduate college of the Naval service, the Naval Academy prepares young men and women to become professional officers in the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps. Naval Academy students are midshipmen on active duty in the U.S. Navy. They attend the academy for four years, graduating with bachelor of science degrees and **reserve commissions as ensigns in the Navy or second lieutenants in the Marine Corps.** [bold added] Naval Academy graduates serve at least five years as Navy or Marine Corps officers Of course this doesn’t mean that they aren’t members of the military as Midshipmen. It could be that the Navy has hit upon this as a way to easily be rid of academy graduates who just don’t work out. Sort of probationary interval, so to speak. I have to assume that if they progress normally in their early careers they are converted from USNR to USN commissions in due time. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/11 "2005-09-26T07:17:14Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > Actually, I think I’ve heard recently that the Naval Academy has switched over to only granting reserve status (yet, of course, on active duty) to its graduates. I cannot find anything on the Naval Academy’s website that says anything positive one way or the other. If I remember correctly from applying to Annapolis, you are given the rank of Midshipman 4th class in the USNR (every year you go up one class so as a senior you’re a Midshipman 1st class). This is between a chief and a commisioned officer but it also places you in the chain of command when on the summer cruises. Theoretically there could be a horrific accident on a ship placing a middie in command of a USN warship. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/12 "2005-09-26T08:35:34Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > I don’t think you can count them. They were in charge of the Armed Forces, not of them. Well, I’m just trying to see if I can justify making the claim. IOW, if I say, “this is stretching things a little, but…” will it make sense? If it does, with that disclaimer, I’m good. Likewise, the midshipmen controversy. Any way you slice it, it’s a pretty good fact, attesting to the centrality of WWII in the 20th Century, that for sixty consecutive years in that century, the sitting American presedent served (or will have served) on some sort of active military duty during WWII. That’s my astonishing fact(oid) and I’m sticking to it. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/13 "2005-09-26T08:39:35Z")
president :smack: ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/14 "2005-09-26T09:15:02Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > Well, I’m just trying to see if I can justify making the claim. IOW, if I say, “this is stretching things a little, but…” will it make sense? If it does, with that disclaimer, I’m good. Likewise, the midshipmen controversy. > > Any way you slice it, it’s a pretty good fact, attesting to the centrality of WWII in the 20th Century, that for sixty consecutive years in that century, the sitting American presedent served (or will have served) on some sort of active military duty during WWII. That’s my astonishing fact(oid) and I’m sticking to it. IANAME (IANA military expert) but my bet would be that you can’t call the president on “active duty.” From [googling](http://kellybeamsley.com/military/usnr/support/term_abbrev.html) > [@](#): > > Active Duty. Full-time duty in the U. S. Armed Forces. and [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_duty) > [@](#): > > In the United States military active duty refers to military members who are currently serving full time in their military capacity. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/15 "2005-09-26T09:22:37Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > IANAME (IANA military expert) but my bet would be that you can’t call the president on “active duty.” From [googling](http://kellybeamsley.com/military/usnr/support/term_abbrev.html) > > and [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_duty) Commander-in-Chief has got to count for _something_, right? It may be a unique form of military service, but you’ve got to include it in the category of “somehow invovled in military-type stuff,” don’t you? Of course I could also say “…or as Commander-in-Chief” for the diehard nitpickers, but I won’t until compelled. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/16 "2005-09-26T09:23:02Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Wrong. This from the [US Military Academy website](http://admissions.usma.edu/overview.cfm) > > Without even looking it up I can be confident that the same applies to both the Naval and Air Force Academies. More precisely, a Cadet/Midshipman has no rank. They are part of the military, but it’s kinda-sorta quasi wierd. If I were to come across a Cadet in uniform I would not be required to salute, even though he will ultimately outrank me, because until he is commissioned I outrank him. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/17 "2005-09-26T12:12:52Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > Any way you slice it, it’s a pretty good fact, attesting to the centrality of WWII in the 20th Century, that for sixty consecutive years in that century, the sitting American presedent served (or will have served) on some sort of active military duty during WWII. That’s my astonishing fact(oid) and I’m sticking to it. Well, yeah, your OP made me think about that. Not only the Greatest Generation, but the Longest Lasting Generation as well. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/18 "2005-09-26T13:24:26Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > Any way you slice it, it’s a pretty good fact, attesting to the centrality of WWII in the 20th Century, that for sixty consecutive years in that century, the sitting American presedent served (or will have served) on some sort of active military duty during WWII. That’s my astonishing fact(oid) and I’m sticking to it. Close, but not quite- even assuming that we’ll count FDR as being on “active military duty” from the bombing of Pearl Harbor in 1941 on, we go 50 years to the end of Bush pere’s term. Of course, that’s still pretty astounding- for other wars, the time of impact was far shorter. World War One: 28 years (assuming we count FDR’s service as Assistant Secretary of the Navy; if not, then a mere 15 years for Truman and Eisenhower.) Civil War: 24 years (Lincoln through Arthur, who was Quartermaster General for the State of New York. Cleveland, having paid a substitute for the draft, breaks the chain; otherwise, it would go 40 years to McKinley’s death.) Mexican-American War: 8 years (Only 2 veterans served- Taylor for 2 years, and Grant (18 years later!) for 8. And, of course, Polk, who was CinC during it.) War of 1812: 8 years (Jackson’s about it.) Revolutionary War: 8 years (Not many war heroes to serve other than the Big Guy himself.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/19 "2005-09-26T19:58:27Z")
> [@](#): > > If I were to come across a Cadet in uniform I would not be required to salute, even though he will ultimately outrank me, because until he is commissioned I outrank him. Ah, but would he have to salute you? Or if not you, would he have to salute a high-ranking commissioned officer? Seems to me that, if there’s saluting going on one way or the other, you’re in the military. ---
**Author:** ![carterba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@carterba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carterba)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415/20 "2005-09-27T03:16:50Z")
> [@John Corrado](#): > > Revolutionary War: 8 years (Not many war heroes to serve other than the Big Guy himself.) Make that 16 years: Andrew Jackson joined the Continental Army at age 13. He was even a POW. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ford-and-carter-serve-in-wwii/323415.md?page=2)