# Did Frank Zappa had any talent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 12, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895 "2016-01-12T03:53:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/41 "2016-01-13T07:22:22Z")
I have it on good authority that he’s a [Genius In France](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-Sqme_o5OI). ---
**Author:** ![Shearer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/57b2e6/32.png) [@Shearer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shearer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/42 "2016-01-13T08:27:23Z")
Certainly ain’t no genius. Nor would Beethoven be if he put fart jokes all over his symphonies. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/43 "2016-01-13T11:15:04Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > I wonder how he’d fly in today’s PC infested culture. Bobby Brown is probably horrible homophobic or something, and Jewish Princess anti-semitic. Valley Girl must be misogynistic or Caliphobic or something. True story: When I was in college c. 1977 or 1978, a boyfriend took me to a Zappa concert in Boston as a birthday present. I was never very concerned with keeping up, so although I’d heard of him, I didn’t really know anything about him or what to expect. I was utterly appalled when Zappa started singing something that I interpreted as aggressively intolerant to gays - Googling what I remember, it seems to have been “Broken Hearts are for Assholes.” The audience at it up, and was cheering in a way that I read as practically an invitation to violence against gays. I was furious with the boyfriend, and really let him have it afterward - “how COULD you think I would want to hear something so horrible? Why would you think that was in any way shape or form a present for me, to be exposed to that kind of prejudice? Do you think being gay is something to mock? Well, I don’t!” Now, nearly 40 years later, I have no idea what was really going down at the concert. Eventually I came to appreciate Zappa’s sarcasm and irony, and I don’t think for a moment he was deliberately inciting people to beat up gays. And yet … I don’t even know whether Zappa fully understood how the audience was reacting to him. Even if Zappa was being ironic, it really didn’t seem like the audience was. But they must have been, right? Anyway, since I have no time machine I can’t go back and relive the experience with more insight. I guess I’m going to judge myself as having been a real stupid asshole (appropriate given the song’s title and my eventual break-up with the boyfriend) - but an asshole for the right reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/44 "2016-01-13T12:49:03Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Zappa wasn’t all that much fun to work for. NO drugs, NO booze. And it was pretty clear that his musicians were people he hired to play for him and he’d have no trouble replacing you. I’ve not long finished Howard Kaylan’s autobiography, _Shell Shocked_, which includes his time as half of _Flo & Eddie_ (he was ‘Eddie’) singing with Zappa and the Mothers of Invention. In it he claims that Zappa initially insisted that they not do drugs at all but apparently soon relented in the face of their tenacity and only insisted that they not do any while he was about, or before gigs. (The pair seem to have been stoned for most of the late 60s and much of the 70s) He did make them, and the other members, work hard though. I only saw Zappa once, back in 1977, after Flo & Eddie had already left the line-up. Great gig I remember almost nothing about now! My vote is for difficult genius. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/45 "2016-01-13T17:04:31Z")
In that way the universe has of randomly putting events together in such a way that it makes you suspect that more than coincidence is at work, I heard Weird Al Yankovic and Cake back-to-back on my way in to work this morning and remembered that both acts have publicly stated that they were greatly influenced by Frank Zappa. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/46 "2016-01-13T17:53:05Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > If I remember correctly Steve Vai got hired because Zappa wanted his catalog transcribed into sheet music and it was very hard to find someone who could do it. Vai could. He was 18 years old. > > One thing that is undeniable. He surrounded himself with amazing performers and musicians. Whether it was frequent guest musicians like George Duke or Jean-Luc Ponty or long time band members like Steve Vai and Terry Bozzio. > > If anyone was wondering my custom title comes from Zappa. Perhaps I oversimplified Vai’s history in my post, but it’s correct that Vai did get hired on by Zappa to do transcriptions. That became a performing gig and Vai is on dozens of Zappa albums, credited with things like “stunt guitar” and “impossible guitar parts.” Zappa has a huge catalog. I have just over half dozen\* of his albums from various phases of his career, but his catalog is so deep that only scratches the surface and I consider myself a casual fan. It can be rough getting into Zappa, because if you find that Freak Out! is the greatest thing ever, you can find yourself hating the next Zappa album you buy because Jazz from Hell is not what you were expecting. \*counting multi disk albums as a single unit. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/47 "2016-01-13T19:37:07Z")
If you want to know if he has talent, listen to the track _Watermelon in Easter Hay_ from the _Joe’s Garage_ album. One of the best Instrumentals I have heard and widely considered to be one of his best guitar solos. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/48 "2016-01-13T19:47:59Z")
CairoCarol - I’m amazed that you were able to make out the lyrics at a 1970s era concert! Even today, unless I l already know the words, I usually don’t have a clue as to what is being sung in big venues. But then my ears are as old as the rest of me. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/49 "2016-01-13T19:54:11Z")
Back in college it was right after the PMRC hearings. Zappa gave a guest lecture/talk on campus. It was billed as “Zappa on Censorship” on all the posters. He was a little annoyed because he didn’t put that out himself. He was planning on talking about many different topics which he did. It’s been 30 years so I don’t remember what was said but I remember him being funny, insightful and very intelligent. I wish I had a recording of that. I never got to see him play live. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/50 "2016-01-13T20:26:57Z")
> [@Shearer](#): > > Certainly ain’t no genius. Nor would Beethoven be if he put fart jokes all over his symphonies. I assume this is a whoosh - since Beethoven did put fart jokes in [The Second Symphony.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._2_%28Beethoven%29) I’m not a musician or musically trained, but I love Zappa and this thread inspires me to go out and get some more of his stuff. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/51 "2016-01-13T23:41:29Z")
> [@Meurglys](#): > > I’ve not long finished Howard Kaylan’s autobiography, _Shell Shocked_, which includes his time as half of _Flo & Eddie_ (he was ‘Eddie’) singing with Zappa and the Mothers of Invention. In it he claims that Zappa initially insisted that they not do drugs at all but apparently soon relented in the face of their tenacity and only insisted that they not do any while he was about, or before gigs. (The pair seem to have been stoned for most of the late 60s and much of the 70s) > He did make them, and the other members, work hard though. Of course, Ozzy Osbourne has a different story to tell. He says that, back when Zappa and Sabbath toured together, Frank’s band members would often come to him to get coke and other drugs, but would beg Ozzy, “Don’t tell Frank- he’d be furious.” Then later, Frank would come to Ozzy to get a toot, and would warn Ozzy, “Don’t tell the other guys!” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/52 "2016-01-14T00:46:27Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Of course, Ozzy Osbourne has a different story to tell. > > He says that, back when Zappa and Sabbath toured together, Frank’s band members would often come to him to get coke and other drugs, but would beg Ozzy, “Don’t tell Frank- he’d be furious.” Then later, Frank would come to Ozzy to get a toot, and would warn Ozzy, “Don’t tell the other guys!” Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/53 "2016-01-14T00:59:03Z")
Mostly a genius although I sometimes wonder about the claim of “he could have had hits if he wanted them”. Well, maybe. But I wonder if hit-making is harder than it seems. ``` One thing I used to hear about him quite often was "Zappa once ate feces on stage". Back then it was impossible to track down Zappa quotes denying anything with feces on stage. I saw him once in at an outdoor show with rain threatening in 1984. When he came onstage instead of the mass cheering rock artists get, everyone stood up and politely applauded. He smirked, nodded his head and commented the rain was expected to hold off but if it did that while his band had a tarp, we didn't and would get wet. Not a mean spirited remark, just realistic. It stayed dry ``` > **[Frank Zappa Setlist at Jones Beach Theater, Wantagh](https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/frank-zappa/1984/jones-beach-theater-wantagh-ny-7bd7c2b4.html)** > > Get the Frank Zappa Setlist of the concert at Jones Beach Theater, Wantagh, NY, USA on August 16, 1984 from the 1984 North American Tour, 1st leg Tour and other Frank Zappa Setlists for free on setlist.fm! But I always wonder about his statements that tobacco was a food to him and his favorite vegetable. Maybe he just couldn’t quit and always wanted to be in control,or seem to be. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/54 "2016-01-14T01:10:55Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Of course, Ozzy Osbourne has a different story to tell. > > He says that, back when Zappa and Sabbath toured together, Frank’s band members would often come to him to get coke and other drugs, but would beg Ozzy, “Don’t tell Frank- he’d be furious.” Then later, Frank would come to Ozzy to get a toot, and would warn Ozzy, “Don’t tell the other guys!” I doubt it. Would you give free coke to a nose of that capacity? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mudshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mudshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mudshark)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/55 "2016-01-14T05:47:22Z")
Talent, yes. But he isn’t for everyone. I enjoy a lot of his instrumentals, and his jazz rock stuff. I know a lot of people who feel his music is too complex, and comes off as complex for the sake of being complex. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/56 "2016-01-14T11:57:40Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite? Don’t have a cite for harder drugs but in Kaylan’s book he does say that on a few occasions Frank did have a smoke with them, and at least once encouraged him to go get his stash to share with him and another well-known musician Zappa wanted to get in with. The book’s at home so I can’t double check who it was right now. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/57 "2016-01-14T16:33:34Z")
I thought the “no drugs” policy was the reason Lowell George left the band to start Little Feat. I only saw Zappa once, around '85 or so. We weren’t familiar with the venue and showed our tickets to an usher, who melt walking us closer and closer to the stage. We wound up seated at a table right in front of the stage! I don’t remember a whole lot about the set list but otherwise it was a very memorable show. I recall a number of times he would grab a baton and the band would snap to attention and he essentially conducted them like an orchestra. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/58 "2016-01-14T16:35:31Z")
Sorry… “melt” should be “kept”. Tapatalk won’t let me edit my post. ---
**Author:** ![escaped](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@escaped](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/escaped)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/59 "2016-01-15T03:43:27Z")
I like freak out. orchestral favorites. apostre. zoot allures. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/60 "2016-01-15T04:48:59Z")
At times, he was a"serious" composer who hired Rock musicians because they were cheaper. Not a huge fan, but I tend to prefer his instrumental work - my favorite being “G Spot Tornado”. And I am with him on not allowing the band members to drink and do drugs. I wouldn’t if I were paying them and expecting them to preform well, like at any job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895.md?page=4)