# Did Frank Zappa had any talent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 12, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895 "2016-01-12T03:53:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/61 "2016-01-15T12:31:08Z")
For those who wanted a cite that Ozzy Osbourne claimed Frank Zappa liked a little blow occasionally… > **[I Am Ozzy](https://books.google.com/books?id=yNzCgAEkW8cC&pg=PT93&lpg=PT93&dq=%22i%2Bam%2Bozzy%22%2B%22zappa%22&source=bl&ots=KjB3vzTyZr&sig=Q1_grP2PJFEVqz9isKH5nyipoA4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3xuyy6avKAhXDMyYKHSQSANkQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22i%20am%20ozzy%22%20%22zappa%22&f=false)** > > The final word in sex, drugs, and rock-and-roll, heavy metal legend Ozzy Osbourne shares his unbelievable story for the first time in this tell-all memoir. "They've said some crazy things about me over the years. I mean, okay: 'He bit the head off a... That’s from “I Am Ozzy,” Ozzy’s autobiography. You may have to click ahead to the #3 allusion to Zappa. You don’t have to believe Ozzy, of course, but at least you now know I wasn’t making things up. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/62 "2016-01-15T13:29:49Z")
Here’s one reason I have a hard time respecting Zappa, even when he was doing something GOOD! Zappa wrote some very good, very PRETTY (yes, I mean that) chamber music. But after writing a pretty piece of music, he’d undercut himself by deliberately giving it a goofy title. Now, to SOME people, that may just mean Frank always kept his zany sense of humor and never took himself too seriously. But to me, it’s a cop-out that borders on cowardice. An artist is always taking a risk when he/she tries to do something serious and lofty. There’s always a chance that, if you aim high and fail, you’ll look foolish. But a great artist takes that risk. By giving a serious classical piece a silly title like “Envelopes” or “Mo and Herb’s Vacation,” I think Zappa was giving himself an easy way out. If people liked what he did, he could bask in their admiration. and if they didn’t, he could just give his trademark sneer and say, “Ha. That was satire, asshole. Too bad you’re too stupid to get it.” ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/63 "2016-01-15T14:05:21Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Zappa wrote some very good, very PRETTY (yes, I mean that) chamber music. But after writing a pretty piece of music, he’d undercut himself by deliberately giving it a goofy title. Well that and his reams of raunchy misogynist pornographic lyrics that are occasionally hilarious. I don’t think you’re going to find very many female fans. I think he was one of his generation’s geniuses but his appeal is limited. He put together some awesome bands and wrote some beautiful music, but jeez those lyrics. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/64 "2016-01-15T17:07:52Z")
> [@mack](#): > > Well that and his reams of raunchy misogynist pornographic lyrics that are occasionally hilarious. I don’t think you’re going to find very many female fans. I think he was one of his generation’s geniuses but his appeal is limited. He put together some awesome bands and wrote some beautiful music, but jeez those lyrics. Not just the lyrics. I read a Zappa biography, and the author complained that one of Zappa’s most beautiful instrumentals had the title “I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth.” Yeah, it hurt his ability to be taken as seriously as he deserved. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/65 "2016-01-15T18:41:15Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Not just the lyrics. I read a Zappa biography, and the author complained that one of Zappa’s most beautiful instrumentals had the title “I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth.” > > Yeah, it hurt his ability to be taken as seriously as he deserved. Hmm. Is that what was being referenced by “Lick My Love Pump” in _This is Spinal Tap_? ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/66 "2016-01-15T20:11:49Z")
Frank Zappa is the epitome of an “acquired taste”, he fits that bill perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/67 "2016-01-17T03:27:49Z")
My first orange sunshine voyage, party circa 1970, someone put on the album Hot Rats… I thereafter stopping listening to anything else but Zappa (and Hendrix) for quite some years:) I even grew the required mustache and soul patch…😕 (eh I was a kid) It is an acquired taste tho…and some is just horrible IMHO, but some of his orchestral arrangements are beautiful. I listen to most everything nowadays, but kinda dislike opera.😃 ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/68 "2016-01-17T13:54:50Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Here’s one reason I have a hard time respecting Zappa, even when he was doing something GOOD! > > Zappa wrote some very good, very PRETTY (yes, I mean that) chamber music. But after writing a pretty piece of music, he’d undercut himself by deliberately giving it a goofy title. Now, to SOME people, that may just mean Frank always kept his zany sense of humor and never took himself too seriously. But to me, it’s a cop-out that borders on cowardice. > > An artist is always taking a risk when he/she tries to do something serious and lofty. There’s always a chance that, if you aim high and fail, you’ll look foolish. But a great artist takes that risk. > > By giving a serious classical piece a silly title like “Envelopes” or “Mo and Herb’s Vacation,” I think Zappa was giving himself an easy way out. If people liked what he did, he could bask in their admiration. and if they didn’t, he could just give his trademark sneer and say, “Ha. That was satire, asshole. Too bad you’re too stupid to get it.” Came in here to say just this. But it wasn’t just the titles IIRC, but also the compositions themselves. They’d be moving along beautifully and then he’d throw in something that I’m sure he thought was very iconoclastic, but was just stupid. I got frustrated with his legit compositions for this very reason. At any rate , Pierre Boulez was a collaborator and fan, so I’d have to argue with him I suppose! ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/69 "2016-01-17T14:02:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I assume this is a whoosh - since Beethoven did put fart jokes in [The Second Symphony.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._2_%28Beethoven%29) > > I’m not a musician or musically trained, but I love Zappa and this thread inspires me to go out and get some more of his stuff. Uh, I think it’s much closer to a hiccup than a fart. And rhythmic abnormalities like the ones that appear in the fourth movement of the Second are extremely common LvB’s work, so I’m unconvinced. ---
**Author:** ![jerry\_smissingfinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e56c9b/32.png) [@jerry\_smissingfinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jerry_smissingfinger)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/70 "2016-01-18T00:28:10Z")
> [@D18](#): > > Uh, I think it’s much closer to a hiccup than a fart. And rhythmic abnormalities like the ones that appear in the fourth movement of the Second are extremely common LvB’s work, so I’m unconvinced. Is your handle a nod to the Martin? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/71 "2016-01-18T00:57:51Z")
Of course he’s a genius. He was instrumental (ha!) in getting Alice to the masses. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/72 "2016-01-18T01:26:28Z")
> [@jerry\_smissingfinger](#): > > Is your handle a nod to the Martin? Yes. Yes, it is! ---
**Author:** ![jerry\_smissingfinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e56c9b/32.png) [@jerry\_smissingfinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jerry_smissingfinger)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/73 "2016-01-18T01:34:40Z")
> [@D18](#): > > Yes. Yes, it is! Right on! I love my 73’ D18. I bought it directly from Mitch Ryder’s guitar tech after a show in San Fran in 84’. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/74 "2016-01-20T14:35:24Z")
Very nice! I have one that’s about the same vintage - 1977 that I bought new, having saved up my guitar teaching money for over a year. ---
**Author:** ![Eugene\_of\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c37758/32.png) [@Eugene\_of\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eugene_of_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/75 "2016-01-20T15:41:42Z")
Put Zappa in the mad genius category. Very few of those come along with any degree of notoriety. It’s just hard to believe that he wasn’t on drugs though. Unless you factor that maybe he really was mad. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/76 "2016-01-21T02:08:48Z")
> [@Eugene\_of\_Sandwich](#): > > Put Zappa in the mad genius category. Very few of those come along with any degree of notoriety. It’s just hard to believe that he wasn’t on drugs though. Unless you factor that maybe he really was mad. He wasn’t nuts. He had his own vision and just didn’t give a shit about anybody else’s. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895/77 "2016-01-21T02:52:11Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > Frank Zappa is the epitome of an “acquired taste”, he fits that bill perfectly. Acquired taste??!? I first heard the album “Freak Out!” in the early 70’s when I was in high school and became an instant fan. I saw him in live performances twice. He had one of the hardest working bands I ever saw. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-frank-zappa-had-any-talent/742895.md?page=3)