# Did George Bush actually perform diplomacy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 7, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159 "2007-06-07T18:28:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/1 "2007-06-07T18:28:20Z")
From [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/07/bush.putin/index.html) It seems Putin and Bush have agreed to work together on the missle shield! Whats going on here? Did we get a new president? I feel like im adrift in an ocean of “what the fuck!”. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/2 "2007-06-07T18:39:13Z")
Well versed in the dark arts, he. He’s a confirmed diplomancer! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/3 "2007-06-07T18:47:39Z")
[QUOTE=Dob] Whats going on here? Did we get a new president? I feel like im adrift in an ocean of “what the fuck!”. [/QUOTE] Can you explain to me why you are so surprised? ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/4 "2007-06-07T19:03:04Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Can you explain to me why you are so surprised? [/QUOTE] Well if I have to explain it to you, or if you even have to ask, then we should just part ways right now 'cause nothing I say is going to make an impression on you. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/5 "2007-06-07T19:20:12Z")
In Russia, missiles point at EU! ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/6 "2007-06-07T19:22:59Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] In Russia, missiles point at EU! [/QUOTE] You! In the corner! Now! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/7 "2007-06-07T19:39:58Z")
[QUOTE=Dob] Well if I have to explain it to you, or if you even have to ask, then we should just part ways right now 'cause nothing I say is going to make an impression on you. [/QUOTE] Oh no. Please explain quite a lot, in detail. Examples would be nice. And when you explain, I’d like you to keep in mind that not all diplomatic failures should be blamed on only one side in the negotiations. The people we deal with have agendas as well, some of which we simply must oppose. I think there are three kinds of people in the world, basically. If there is a headline that says “U.S., Benin Talks Break Down,” one group will instantly blame the U.S. in their head, another will curse at Benin, and the third will read the article to see what on earth the argument was about. What group are you in, praytell? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/8 "2007-06-07T19:56:08Z")
These guys were pals going into this little scuffle. I’m just surprised (well, a little anyway) that Bush didn’t stage this earlier. …OK, that’s may inner paranoid talking again. I’ll let you know what my critical thinker comes up with just as soon as he stops sucking his thumb and banging his head against the wall. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/9 "2007-06-07T19:57:37Z")
I’m more surprised by Putin, but rhetoric always seems to die down when people meet in person. Maybe Bush admitted privately the missile shield won’t ever work anyway, so stop worrying about it. Now what I’d really like to see is the G8 play _Diplomacy_. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/10 "2007-06-07T20:22:01Z")
Well, GWB’s accusing Putin of “hyperventilating” about missiles systems was rather catty. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/11 "2007-06-07T20:29:26Z")
Putin always seems so passive-aggressive in his comments to me. As if he has to remind us that the Russians are different from us. “We have an understanding about common threats, _but we have differences._ The difference is the ways and means in which we can overcome these threats,” ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/12 "2007-06-07T20:41:08Z")
[QUOTE=pool] Putin always seems so passive-aggressive in his comments to me. As if he has to remind us that the Russians are different from us. “We have an understanding about common threats, _but we have differences._ The difference is the ways and means in which we can overcome these threats,” [/QUOTE] 😕 This is not a statement about existential differences, this is a statement about differences of opinion. “We perceive a common threat, but disagree about the appropriate response.” What is “passive aggressive” about that? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/13 "2007-06-08T00:43:54Z")
Bush probably just explained to Putin that the missile shield is no threat to Russia. It’s just a boondoggle program to funnel trillions of tax dollars to some friends in the defense industry. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/14 "2007-06-08T00:56:05Z")
It’s fascinating how when Bush’s name comes up the openmindedness and cordiality that 's so common to this board just disappears. Sad also. ☹ I don’t want to get this thrown into GD or the pit so I’ll just gently point out that both Churchill and Lincoln were reviled by the public after doing great things. It doesn’t prove that everyone who is reviled has done great things, but maybe you could think about how many people were just so positive that those guys were assholes that they didn’t have to listen to anyone who disagreed. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/15 "2007-06-08T01:54:15Z")
I thought the funniest thing (not really ha-ha funny, but ironic funny) was that Bush felt the need, at a press conference, to say that we’re not at war with Russia. These days, we need to be told when we’re not at war with someone! It could also just be a matter of time! (tongue-in cheek, calm down conservatives) Ah, [here](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070606/ts_nm/g8_summit_shield_dc) it is. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/16 "2007-06-08T02:05:06Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] I thought the funniest thing (not really ha-ha funny, but ironic funny) was that Bush felt the need, at a press conference, to say that we’re not at war with Russia. These days, we need to be told when we’re not at war with someone! It could also just be a matter of time! (tongue-in cheek, calm down conservatives) Ah, [here](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070606/ts_nm/g8_summit_shield_dc) it is. [/QUOTE] That’s an interesting link. After Putin directly threatens to point nuclear WMDs at our European allies, which we all know absolutely DO exist, Bush shows remarkable calmness: > [@](#): > > Asked if the U.S. military should respond in some way to Putin’s warning, Bush said that was not needed. > > “As I said yesterday, Russia is not an enemy. There needs to be no military response because we are not at war with Russia,” Bush told reporters traveling with him. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/17 "2007-06-08T02:12:29Z")
It is. It’s almost like the person that had their hand up Shrub’s ass fell asleep at the switch for the past 5 or so years and finally woke up and decided to re-insert. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/18 "2007-06-08T03:12:20Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s fascinating how when Bush’s name comes up the openmindedness and cordiality that 's so common to this board just disappears. Sad also. Bush has been President for six years. We’re not just guessing here - we’ve seen how he handles the job. Openmindedness and cordiality don’t prevent us from calling a failed presidency what it is. [quote] I don’t want to get this thrown into GD or the pit so I’ll just gently point out that both Churchill and Lincoln were reviled by the public after doing great things. It doesn’t prove that everyone who is reviled has done great things, but maybe you could think about how many people were just so positive that those guys were assholes that they didn’t have to listen to anyone who disagreed. [quote] WWII started in 1939 and the American Civil War started in 1861. Six years after those dates both wars had ended successfully. Churchill and Lincoln were both out of office and were highly revered for what they had accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/19 "2007-06-08T03:19:22Z")
Damn. Enough time to half-edit. > [@](#): > > It’s fascinating how when Bush’s name comes up the openmindedness and cordiality that 's so common to this board just disappears. Sad also. Bush has been President for six years. We’re not just guessing here - we’ve seen how he handles the job. Openmindedness and cordiality don’t prevent us from calling a failed presidency what it is. > [@](#): > > I don’t want to get this thrown into GD or the pit so I’ll just gently point out that both Churchill and Lincoln were reviled by the public after doing great things. It doesn’t prove that everyone who is reviled has done great things, but maybe you could think about how many people were just so positive that those guys were assholes that they didn’t have to listen to anyone who disagreed. WWII started in 1939 and the American Civil War started in 1861. Six years after those dates both wars had ended successfully. Churchill and Lincoln were both out of office and were highly revered for what they had accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159/20 "2007-06-08T03:53:24Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] WWII started in 1939 and the American Civil War started in 1861. Six years after those dates both wars had ended successfully. Churchill and Lincoln were both out of office and were highly revered for what they had accomplished. [/QUOTE] Churchill was loved so much they voted him out of office. Lincoln was loved so much he was shot. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-bush-actually-perform-diplomacy/407159.md?page=2)