# Did George H.W. Bush leave a 'mess'? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 6, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867 "2012-09-06T16:54:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/21 "2012-09-06T20:48:11Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > But **Mr. Excellent** is right in that GHWB managed the situation, responded diplomatically, and reacted to events, with remarkable deftness. Not perfect, of course; I could point to one or two things that were a bit clumsy. But Bush’s years of diplomacy paid off very well in that era. > > (I was amused by his non-response to the request for recognition of the Baltic Republics. He said, in essence, “The U.S. has always recognized the Baltic Republics, so we don’t need to announce any policy change at this time.” A delightful example of finesse.) I’d wouldn’t grade him too high, but I have to admit he did pretty well in an unprecedented situation. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/22 "2012-09-06T23:06:02Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > He also successfully managed the collapse of the Soviet Union and its aftermath - that could have been botched in many, many exciting ways. George H.W. Bush wasn’t my favorite President, but he was thoroughly competent and professional; I wouldn’t _want_ him in the White House again, but I wouldn’t be terribly upset about it. Those were the good old days when it was annoying to have the opposite party in the White House, but it was not like you’d expect the country to fall apart. Then we got Bush junior in the White House, and the country did fall apart. Bush Senior controlled Cheney and Rumsfeld. They controlled Bush Junior. I voted for him in 1988, and don’t regret it. After all, he even raised taxes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![getitrite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@getitrite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/getitrite)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/23 "2012-09-07T02:13:39Z")
How could you forget that there was a Republican in office before GHWB, so total years of Republican years were 12. Not saying that its anybodys fault, but the numbers speak for themselves. Lost my job in the 1990, could find or get one till 94. Had to do the retrain thing, back to school. In my experence, lifetime, best of times is Democratic, worst of times is 2 years into Republican, don’t think its all their fault just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/24 "2012-09-07T03:06:58Z")
He left a mess inside Barbara that had some very significant consequences ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/25 "2012-09-07T15:16:03Z")
The Savings and Loan collapse was probably the worst of it; the foundation for the crisis was laid in the Reagan administration, but it didn’t collapse until GHWB was in office, so he caught all the flak. The collapse of what had been thought to be solid financial institutions led to a crisis in the real estate market, and home construction dropped by almost 50%. As a result, GHWB went from “most popular president ever” to “hanging on by his fingernails” in the space of about a year. Anyone else remember that in 1991, on an episode of SNL hosted by Keifer Sutherland, they had a sketch that involved Democratic candidates in “The Race To Avoid Being The Guy Who Loses To Bush”? [Transcript](http://snltranscripts.jt.org/91/91edebate.phtml). His re-election seemed so certain then… ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/26 "2012-09-08T06:53:32Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Note that the OP didn’t say that Clinton said he inherited a mess but that a CNN commentator said this. That’s a relief. I thought the Democrats perfect record for telling the truth had been broken. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/27 "2012-09-08T11:29:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Patrick Gaspar commented, on CNN, on Bill Clinton’s DNC speech. He said that Clinton and Obama are similar in that Clinton came in a cleaned up a ‘mess’ left by the previous administration. > > Refresh my memory. Did GHW Bush leave a ‘mess’? > > Even as a progressive liberal, I have to ackowledge: > > Despite his pledge of ‘No new taxes’, he relented (reluctantly) to Democratic demands and did what was necessary to help the economy. He successfully prosecuted the Gulf War, and refused to go beyond the objective of freeing Kuwait by invading Iraq. (I’d rather not get into a debate about whether he should have.) I may not agree with his positions, but he is an intelligent person who acted responsibly within his beliefs. > > How was I doing during his presidency? Pretty good, actually. I did better under Clinton, but I felt that jobs were more secure under GHW Bush than under his son’s administration, and I had enough money to fly and do other things. > > Is it really fair to say that GHW Bush left a ‘mess’ that Clinton had to clean up? GHB din’t leave a mess,but the economy wasn’t good,that was why Clinton was elected in the first place, and for another term, even after the scandal. I think it was the same reason Obama was elected, Jr left a near depression,the costs of 2 wars,our reputation around the world was also not too good. Should Romney win, things willl not get better,GW’s lowering the tax rate for the Rich didn’t create jobs here, and I doubt that Romney can magically create the jobs he says he will. We will see how rich everyone is in 2014! The country is very divided and in reality Bush Jr. was picked by the supreme court, then people didn’t want to change presidents in the middle of 2 wars. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/28 "2012-09-08T12:23:45Z")
On the contrary…Obama added to the mess and made it worse in almost every way. Take Afghanistan-Bush left office with about 20,000 troops in Afghanistan. The US was winding down…then Obama decided to play “nation building”-he got more than 120,000 troops sent in, and got involved with war with the tribes on the Pakistan Border. Now, we have a huge death toll, and no way out of the mess he created. And for you war enthusiasts, we have troops in Africa, involved in tribal wars there… this has escaped all notice-just wait though-spectacular results will be achieved. On the economic front, GM will be asking for more money soon…the Volt has been a sales flop, and the government has lost over $33 billion on GM stock. Things are looking up! ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/29 "2012-09-08T13:22:58Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > He also successfully managed the collapse of the Soviet Union and its aftermath - that could have been botched in many, many exciting ways. George H.W. Bush wasn’t my favorite President, but he was thoroughly competent and professional; I wouldn’t _want_ him in the White House again, but I wouldn’t be terribly upset about it. This, in particular, is a point I’ve supported in the past. GHWB may not have been anyone’s ideal President but he was a thoroughly competent government professional. He’d spent his whole life learning and networking with people who were learning how to deal with the sort of crises that President’s face. He was also realist enough to know that the budget isn’t some sort of magic thing that you can change by wishing hard enough. There’s a lot to be said for competence and realism in the role. Especially contrast that with the others since 1980. Reagan, Clinton and Obama to a certain extent all relied on charisma to get things done. But when that goes off the rails it can be hard to recenter. And GWB was just a bad President. It might be possible that GHWB is viewed as one of the more effective Presidents in 100 years. It wouldn’t surprise me if that were the case. In terms of ‘a mess’ left for Clinton? Somalia (though it seems so CUTE a quagmire at this point) The tail end of a recession (though it seems to CUTE a recession at this point) The Branch Davidian mess? That would certainly count. In short, if it’s a mess I’d swap it out with our current one straightaway. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/30 "2012-09-08T15:01:34Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > On the contrary..Obama added to the mess and made it worse in almost every way. Take Afghanistan-Bush left office with about 20,000 troops in Afghanistan. I disagree with your assessment; but as I said, I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/31 "2012-09-08T16:25:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Yes. It was a bit of a mess… Can you elaborate? I know the economy turned bad towards the end of his term, but it was actually picking up by the time Clinton took office, no? ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/32 "2012-09-09T00:59:48Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Interestingly, one of his problems during that campaign was being seen as being out of touch - for instance when he didn’t know how a supermarket UPC scanner worked. It doesn’t affect your point, since that’s certainly how it got portrayed in most of the press, but what I recall at the time is that some people (scanner manufacturer developers, I presume) were showing him a UPC scanner that could still read a UPC code that was torn into two or three separate pieces. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/33 "2012-09-12T11:28:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can you elaborate? I know the economy turned bad towards the end of his term, but it was actually picking up by the time Clinton took office, no? It wasn’t picking up when Obama took office,nor was the expense of 2 wars on the table. The expense of the Iraq war, and the stirring up of all the radicals in the region didn’t make things easier or less costly! When people are so angry over a book (or a man) that they can kill thousands of innocent people who didn’t(as far as we know anyway) say or do anything bad it makes one wonder? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/34 "2012-09-12T15:01:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > How was I doing during his presidency? Pretty good, actually. I did better under Clinton, but I felt that jobs were more secure under GHW Bush than under his son’s administration, and I had enough money to fly and do other things. To me it’s not at all clear that a prevailing economic condition necessarily has much to do with what particular president is serving during the period. Of course, presidents like to take credit for economic booms during their terms but I can’t see any direct causal link in most presidencies. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867/35 "2012-09-13T06:18:34Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > To me it’s not at all clear that a prevailing economic condition necessarily has much to do with what particular president is serving during the period. > > Of course, presidents like to take credit for economic booms during their terms but I can’t see any direct causal link in most presidencies. True, but people seem to think they have a lot to do with it, seeing as they generally reelect presidents who presided during economic upturns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-h-w-bush-leave-a-mess/633867.md?page=1)