# Did George III ever say anything after Washington retired? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 14, 2012, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968 "2012-11-14T08:17:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/1 "2012-11-14T08:17:19Z")
There’s a famous exchange that occurred at the end of the American Revolution. As the war was ending, there was speculation about what kind of country the newly independent America would become and many people assumed Washington would declare himself King of the new country. King George III happened to meet Benjamin West, an American living in London. The King asked West what he thought Washington would do now that the war was over. West said that he had heard Washington planned on retiring back to his farm. George said _“If he does that, he will be the greatest man in the world.”_ As it turns out, Washington did indeed retire and go back to his farm (although he would be elected President five years later). Is there any record of whether George III made any additional comments after it was clear that Washington was not going to take power? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/2 "2012-11-14T12:51:50Z")
I hadn’t heard of this exchange, but it’s worth pointing out that Washington’s proposed actions weren’t merely a republican ideal – he was consciously followuing in the footsteps of the Roman general Cincinnatus > [@](#): > > Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus (520 BC – 430 BC) was an aristocrat and political figure of the Roman Republic, serving as consul in 460 BC and Roman dictator in 458 BC and 439 BC.[1] > > Cincinnatus was regarded by the Romans, especially the aristocratic patrician class, as one of the heroes of early Rome and as a model of Roman virtue and simplicity.[citation needed] He was a persistent opponent of the plebeians.[2] When his son was convicted and condemned to death, Cincinnatus was forced to live in humble circumstances, working on his own small farm, until an invasion caused him to be called to serve Rome as dictator, an office which he immediately resigned after completing his task of defeating the rivaling tribes of the Aequians, Sabines, and Volscians. He lived approximately around the time that Lucius Junius Brutus did. > > His immediate resignation of his absolute authority with the end of the crisis has often been cited as an example of outstanding leadership, service to the greater good, civic virtue, lack of personal ambition and modesty. As a result, he has inspired a number of organizations and other entities, many of which are named in his honor. \ > **[Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnatus)** > > Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus (c. 519 – c. 430 BC) was a Roman patrician, statesman, and military leader of the early Roman Republic who became a famous model of Roman virtue—particularly civic virtue—by the time of the late Republic. > Modern historians question some particulars of the story of Cincinnatus that was recounted in Livy's History of Rome and elsewhere, but it is usually accepted that Cincinnatus was a historical figure who served as suffect consul in 460 BC and as dictator in 458 BC a... If George did speak as you say, he probably also had the knowledge of Cincinnatus in mind, and undoubtedly would have mentioned it if he spoke of Washington in the future. Although it’s not known if George III knew of it, but at one point Washington’s officers _did_ offer him command of the country, an effective military dictatorship, and he turned it down. > **[The Rise and Fall of the Newburgh Conspiracy](https://www.varsitytutors.com/earlyamerica/milestone-events/rise-fall-newburgh-conspiracy)** > > Major uprisings had occurred in 1780 by Connecticut soldiers and in 1781 by Pennsylvania and New Jersey troops. The Newburgh incident, though, was unique .. > **[Newburgh Conspiracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newburgh_Conspiracy)** > > The Newburgh Conspiracy was a failed apparent threat by leaders of the Continental Army in March 1783, at the end of the American Revolutionary War. The Army's commander, George Washington, successfully calmed the soldiers and helped secure back pay. The conspiracy may have been instigated by members in the Congress of the Confederation, which circulated an anonymous letter in the army camp at Newburgh, New York, on March 10, 1783. Soldiers were unhappy that they had not been paid for some t... Not long after the Newburgh events, the _Society of the Cincinnati_ was formed. It still exists, and is headquartered in Washington DC > **[Society of the Cincinnati](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Cincinnati)** > > The Society of the Cincinnati is a fraternal, hereditary society founded in 1783 to commemorate the American Revolutionary War that saw the creation of the United States. Membership is largely restricted to descendants of military officers who served in the Continental Army. > The Society has thirteen constituent societies in the United States and one in France. It was founded to perpetuate "the remembrance of this vast event" (the achievement of American Independence), "to preserve inviolate th... ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/3 "2012-11-14T13:56:35Z")
It should be noted that in the Roman Republic, “Dictator” was an official and legitimate title, and was strictly term-limited: You couldn’t serve as Dictator for more than six months consecutively. Well, until that Julie guy went and overturned the apple cart. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/4 "2012-11-14T14:13:54Z")
Well there was Sulla’s dictatorship which had no term limit to it and it’s resulting bloodbath in 81 BC. Still an educated man in the 18th century would know the ideal Cincinnatus represented and would recognize parallels to Washington. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/5 "2012-11-14T18:50:24Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I hadn’t heard of this exchange, but it’s worth pointing out that Washington’s proposed actions weren’t merely a republican ideal – he was consciously followuing in the footsteps of the Roman general Cincinnatus > > \ > > [Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnatus) > If George did speak as you say, he probably also had the knowledge of Cincinnatus in mind, and undoubtedly would have mentioned it if he spoke of Washington in the future. > Although it’s not known if George III knew of it, but at one point Washington’s officers _did_ offer him command of the country, an effective military dictatorship, and he turned it down. > > [http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/fall97/wshngton.html](http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/fall97/wshngton.html) > > [Newburgh Conspiracy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newburgh_Conspiracy) > Not long after the Newburgh events, the _Society of the Cincinnati_ was formed. It still exists, and is headquartered in Washington DC > > [Society of the Cincinnati - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Cincinnati) And then the city of Cincinnati was named for that society. I think it’s one of the most interesting explanation of American city names. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/6 "2012-11-14T19:38:16Z")
I realize that Washington was consciously following the Cincinnatus example. But my point was that most people thought he was just talking. That like Caesar or Napoleon or Bolivar, he was only feigning reluctance for popular effect and would ultimately seize power. So these people were amazed when Washington followed through and really did voluntarily retire. (And it was by choice. A substantial portion of the Continental Army made it clear they wanted Washington to take over the country and would support him. So Washington could have become a dictator if he had wanted to.) ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/7 "2012-11-15T01:07:30Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Well there was Sulla’s dictatorship which had no term limit to it and it’s resulting bloodbath in 81 BC. Still an educated man in the 18th century would know the ideal Cincinnatus represented and would recognize parallels to Washington. Having grown bored of absolute power. and running out of enemies to destroy, Sulla retired to his villa. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/8 "2012-11-15T04:01:21Z")
November 1788 aparently was the height of GIII’s first bout of demetia, or Madness, or bat-shit-crazy. He came and went in coherence over the next few decades; although, he aparently was coherent around the time Washinton finished his terms as president and retired… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/9 "2012-11-15T05:06:34Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > November 1788 aparently was the height of GIII’s first bout of demetia, or Madness, or bat-shit-crazy. He came and went in coherence over the next few decades; although, he aparently was coherent around the time Washinton finished his terms as president and retired… But I’m asking about 1783 when Washington retired from his military command. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/10 "2012-11-15T05:16:36Z")
> [@George III](#): > > If they name a city after him we’ll wait 30 years then burn that place down to the ground. .. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/11 "2012-11-15T06:05:08Z")
War of 1812 reference I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/12 "2012-11-15T06:16:26Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > War of 1812 reference I guess. Well, if they were talking about Cincinnatus, it’s taking longer than we thought… ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/13 "2012-11-15T10:42:25Z")
Cicinnatus was the name of the [innkeeper](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_McKennon#section_3) on the old Fess Parker Daniel Boone show. (Hey, if I have to retain obscure, stupid stuff like this, why should you be spared?) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/14 "2012-11-15T15:14:14Z")
In 1782, in the uneasy two years between the last great American victory at Yorktown and the signing of the treaty between the U.S. and Great Britain, Col. Nicola of the Continental Army suggested that, since Congress was untrustworthy and ineffectual, Gen. Washington ought to depose them and become king. Washington’s response to his subordinate officer is classic: [Retired Site | PBS](http://www.pbs.org/georgewashington/multimedia/heston/lewis_nicola.html) > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …As it turns out, Washington did indeed retire and go back to his farm (although he would be elected President five years later). Is there any record of whether George III made any additional comments after it was clear that Washington was not going to take power? George III’s remark to West is pretty well-documented; the University of Virginia’s Washington Papers project traced its origins a few years ago (I could dig up a cite for you, if you like). Garry Wills also discusses it in his excellent _Cincinnatus: George Washington and the Enlightenment_. I’ve read a lot about Washington over the years and haven’t ever come across any subsequent remark by the King, though. As **md2000** notes, he had some mental issues in later years. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …That like Caesar or Napoleon or Bolivar, he was only feigning reluctance for popular effect and would ultimately seize power… Napoleon, while exiled and late in life, was quoted by one contemporary as muttering, “They wanted me to be another Washington.” History is full of tyrants; there have been precious few leaders in Washington’s mold. His declining of power that others sought to thrust upon him, and his insistence that the institutions of republican government must be upheld, is all the more reason to admire him today. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/15 "2012-11-15T15:50:17Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I’ve read a lot about Washington over the years and haven’t ever come across any subsequent remark by the King, though. Maybe historians just felt his subsequent statement - _“Well, fuck me blue, he went and did it.”_ - was a royal quote worth preserving. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-george-iii-ever-say-anything-after-washington-retired/640968/16 "2012-11-15T16:13:38Z")
From [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_III_of_the_United_Kingdom#American_War_of_Independence), a heavily sourced article: > [@](#): > > He told (John) Adams, “I was the last to consent to the separation; but the separation having been made and having become inevitable, I have always said, as I say now, that I would be the first to meet the friendship of the United States as an independent power.” That quote suggests a massive level of respect, give or take the usual level of expected buttings-of-head between powers at the time.