# Did half the town Rape this girl? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 9, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070 "2011-03-09T18:26:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/61 "2011-03-10T18:29:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Men are fucking scum. Uncivilized male humans, and humans in general, are animals armed with very clever brains. I want to know, where \*were \*the men? Someone asked where the mothers were? Who gives a shit. Those bitches have done quite enough damage to society by shitting these turds out to begin with. Where were the fucking dads? Where are the older, stronger male influences in these guys lives? There was a 27-year-old present, but he was one of the gang-rapists. Not a good role model. Where were the good male role models? Do these guys even have dads? What about at school? Do they have male teachers, coaches, counselors, mentors, authority figures? You let a criminal gang raise human children what you end up with isn’t so human. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/62 "2011-03-10T18:33:18Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I am unaware of any legal restriction concerning the identification of the race of the accused in a story about crime (or anything else). There may be ethical concerns that I can see, like only mentioning it if it is germane to the crime somehow, but it’s not like identifying rape victims where there are legal restrictions (in some states) that forbid it. The right wing blogosphere/e-mail forward world is convinced the race angle is germane and that the girl is white. I have no reason to think that’s true (or, untrue), but they’re having a field day with the black-culture-is-rotten-to-the-core theme. ---
**Author:** ![Heckity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Heckity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heckity)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/63 "2011-03-10T19:03:32Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > The assailants can and have distinguished between the two, but just didn’t care. “It would seem they are confused by the difference between ‘having sex with’ and ‘rape’.” seems to imply to me that they were incapable of, or at least having difficulty with, making the distinction between the two. Apologies if that was not your intent. That was indeed NOT my intent. I didn’t mean to infer that they were incapable of, or at least having difficulty with, the distinction, rather they CHOSE not to distinguish - which is really more inline with your “just didn’t care”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/64 "2011-03-10T19:04:57Z")
> [@Beadalin](#): > > NYT is taking some well-deserved heat for its portrayal of the victim. Hope it keeps pretty hot for them for a while. > [http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog\_thecutline/20110310/ts\_yblog\_thecutline/ny-times-responds-to-backlash-against-portrayal-of-11-year-old-rape-victim](http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110310/ts_yblog_thecutline/ny-times-responds-to-backlash-against-portrayal-of-11-year-old-rape-victim) “This poor girl had no decent adult looking out for her” doesn’t sound like blaming the victim to me. Blaming the mother - hell yeah, and rightly so. And the father, who I have no doubt hasn’t been in the picture for years. > [@Huerta88](#): > > The right wing blogosphere/e-mail forward world is convinced the race angle is germane and that the girl is white. I assumed she was black, but I doubt it matters. > [@](#): > > they’re having a field day with the black-culture-is-rotten-to-the-core theme. I don’t know if it is rotten to the core, but I would be willing to bet that most or all of the rapists (alleged rapists, etc.) grew up in a household with a single female parent. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/65 "2011-03-10T19:26:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And the father, who I have no doubt hasn’t been in the picture for years. HouChron article seems to belie that – it refers to him as an underemployed carpenter IIRC but implies he is around. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/66 "2011-03-10T19:30:51Z")
Or else they tracked him down for the article. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/67 "2011-03-10T19:33:18Z")
Actually, on reading the article you appear to be correct - > [@](#): > > The stress has grown so intense, the 16-year-old daughter said, that her parents considered separating, while the 11-year-old is having regrets about following through with the case. My bad. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/68 "2011-03-10T20:17:49Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > For the story in the NYT I can see the reporters problem straightaway. He’s got a horrific crime and little to no facts. The only ones who are talking who know anything are the people related in some way to the accused. It’s clear from the reporting that he had little info from the police and NO access to the victim or her family. Therefore the story that comes out is going to have things about the victim that are unflattering because that’s a basic way people gossip. And, to be clear, quoting townspeople who almost excused the men because the girl wore makeup tells us far more about those people’s morality, than about the girl’s or the reporter’s morality. I think the reporter is to be commended, not condemned, for reporting those remarks, and for doing that in straightforward fashion without adding his own editorial opinion. The implication that he should have selected facts to fit a “correct” scenario seemed quite wrong-minded to me. And of course there is some age threshold (well above 11), below which sex is always rape regardless of the girl’s behavior. (Some girls do appear much older than their true age, but in that small town that girl’s age was no secret.) ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/69 "2011-03-10T20:49:57Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > (I score as Briggs-Meyer INTP-Perceptive while many Dopers are INTJ-Judgmental. That difference shows up over and over in some of these threads.) I guess that might actually mean something, if the MBTI were in any way a valid scientific instrument, instead of just neo-Jungian hogwash. \ ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/70 "2011-03-10T21:03:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I assumed she was black, but I doubt it matters. She’s part of mi gente and there’s a racial tone among the locals it appears. > **[Gang Rape of 11-Year-Old Girl Sparks Racial Tensions in Texas Town](https://abcnews.go.com/US/gang-rape-charges-18-men-sparks-racial-tensions/story?id=13095476&page=1)** > > The alleged gang rape of an 11-year-old girl by at least 18 boys and young men has sparked outrage in the tiny town of Cleveland, Texas, and broken open racial tensions in the town just 45 miles from Houston. Houston community activist Quannell X... ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/71 "2011-03-10T21:10:56Z")
As the mother of an 11YO girl (who _has_ been sexually molested), this story makes me somewhat nauseated. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/72 "2011-03-10T21:18:27Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > And, to be clear, quoting townspeople who almost excused the men because the girl wore makeup tells us far more about those people’s morality, than about the girl’s or the reporter’s morality. I think the reporter is to be commended, not condemned, for reporting those remarks, and for doing that in straightforward fashion without adding his own editorial opinion. On today’s New York Times editorial page there is one [letter to the editor](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/10/opinion/l10rape.html?ref=todayspaper) about the news article. Only one letter is needed on the page because the letter writer pointedly addresses the reporting of the news article. The quotes the letter writer addresses were given by neighbors. The argument, I suppose, is that, while the quotes would have been appropriate on the local news TV channel, they are not appropriate in _The New York Times_. They were included because they are representative of the views of the residents of Cleveland, Texas, not necessarily the views of the reporters of _The New York Times_. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/73 "2011-03-10T21:51:46Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Nice victim blaming. Reading for comprehension **Dogzilla** …try it sometime. :rolleyes: If what we have read is indeed true, then this little girl was a victim long before this despicable crime took place. I would have no compunction in jailing her abusers (and any ‘onlookers’) for life. They acted like pack animals, and they should be treated as such. But if she is to get _any_ justice and healing at all, then her family and her community need to take a damned good look at themelves too. Eleven year olds should be climbing trees, making cubby houses and playing with their Barbie dolls, not having sex with an older man. Something went very, very wrong with this little girl, and punishing the men _alone_ is not going to fix it. Do you get it now? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/74 "2011-03-10T21:54:17Z")
On second thought, I don’t know whether I should take issue with Jinnie Spiegler for writing the letter to the editor or the editor for printing it: > [@](#): > > While the 18 boys and men charged with the attack were described in innocuous terms except that a few had criminal records, I was shocked [del]to see the article report[/del] that town residents said the 11-year-old girl “dressed older than her age, wearing makeup and fashions more appropriate to a woman in her 20s.” In any case, the text struck out should have been edited out of the letter. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/75 "2011-03-10T22:11:14Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Maybe it was, but it doesn’t fucking matter. She is the victim. I want to know where the mothers of sick fucking scum who raped her are. That’s is a pertinent fucking question. The lack of parental care in the victim’s life is neither here nor there. What is the point? Saying stuff like ‘_My son said he never touched the girl. He had never been around the girl,” she said. “When it first came out I asked him and he said, ‘No mama, I wouldn’t do something like that._”’ Or, as I prefer to see it, stuff like: ‘_MysonsaidhenevertouchedthegirlHehadnever beenaroundthegirl,” she said. “WhenitfirstcameoutIaskedhimandhesaid‘Nomama,Iwouldn’tdosomethinglikethat._’ Mamas tend to believe their sons, maybe not their daughters… > [@septimus](#): > > I’ll agree the story raises interesting questions about Cleveland’s citizens (one is quoted saying “I really wish that this could end in a better light.”) _However_ I strongly disagree with **miss elizabeth** ’s take. I want my journalists to tell as complete a story as they can, not to choose selectively which facts best fit a “correct” perspective and which don’t. For example, knowing the races of individuals in the story might add insight, but I don’t think reporters are allowed to reveal that. Ah, I think, despite mainstream media’s understandable desire to play down racial elements in crime to promote harmony, a — perhaps small — number of people may have got a slender clue by looking at the photographs to work out which social construct the perps belonged to. On the other hand, if 1% of X are raptists that leaves 99% of X who aren’t, so it’s a bit of a red herring: their actions are more indicative of the culture they as individuals chose to live than of race or poverty. Looking this up, I did come across one semi-racist site where the scathing comments on these chaps were hilarious. > [@](#): > > (I score as Briggs-Meyer INTP-Perceptive while many Dopers are INTJ-Judgmental. That difference shows up over and over in some of these threads.) Welcome, brother. > [@Shodan](#): > > …but I would be willing to bet that most or all of the rapists (alleged rapists, etc.) grew up in a household with a single female parent. So did I; _suspiciously_ What’s your point ? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/76 "2011-03-10T22:27:53Z")
**Did half the town rape this girl?** No, 1/6 of the high school basketball team. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/77 "2011-03-10T22:35:15Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > \*\*Most \*\*men are wannabe rapists? Bullshit. In UCLA’s Neil Malamuth’s survey of 1986, 30% of men admitted they would commit rape if they knew there was no chance of getting caught. When the question posed changed the word ‘rape’ to ‘force a woman into hving sex’ the number who answered in the affirmative was over 50%. A similar survey of Californian teen males found over 50% thought it was acceptable to force a woman to have sex if she “leads him on” or has gotten the man sexually aroused. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/78 "2011-03-10T22:57:46Z")
So… “half” then? Still not “most.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/79 "2011-03-10T23:04:07Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > …but I would be willing to bet that most or all of the rapists (alleged rapists, etc.) grew up in a household with a single female parent. > > So did I; _suspiciously_ What’s your point ? That most of the really fucked-up criminals in America grew up without a father in the home. Or with an abusive father. I am not accusing you of being a rapist. I am pointing out a correlation. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/80 "2011-03-10T23:33:42Z")
His point was people being fucked up is usually because of single mothers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070.md?page=5)