# Did half the town Rape this girl? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 9, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070 "2011-03-09T18:26:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/141 "2011-03-11T16:03:13Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Attitudes like yours take power away from women, they tell us that women are some sort of passive little flowers that have things done to them, not people that can take control of themselves and influence what happens around them. She is _11 years old_. She _is_ a passive little flower. For fuck’s sake, did all those raped alter boys have a responsibility to protect themselves from the priests? Didn’t they know that going into a room with them was like walking down the street flashing a wad of cash? These are small children. She’d probably never even had her period. Anyway, I agree that there are things society can do to protect it’s children, but it’s also not useful to place all the blame on Mommy Dearest. Neglectful parents are out there. They always will be. No amount of cluck clucking or finger waving will make every parent be responsible. And there are predators who will keep a special eye out for the daughters of neglectful parents. We can, as a society, make changes to lessen the risk. How many of you supported welfare-to-work without thinking too hard about who is going to take care of these parent’s children? What do you think happens when you have to take two jobs to survive? A babysitter costs more than they would make an hour. Why don’t we realize we all need to make sure our community’s kids are supervised? We need sports teams and after school programs. We need community groups that identify and act on gang problems. We need drug rehabilitation for those that need it, and real mental health services. Maybe then, we can start taking community measures. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/142 "2011-03-11T16:04:50Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > My alleged boss? If you want to call me a liar at least have the courage to do it. Alleged boss? What the fuck is that? > > Rape can’t be compared to anything? Why not? Did you get penetrated anally or vaginally by your boss? Oh, wait, that’s really not a risk you face. Did you get forced to perform oral sex? Did you get raped by multiple assailants, repeatedly, in every orifice? Did you do this in a culture where rape victims get blamed at every opportunities, and still are to this day? I mean, that’s just the most obvious, glaring flaws in your idiotic minimizing example. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/143 "2011-03-11T16:13:06Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Well perhaps some people haven’t learned how not to be a victim yet. Maybe this girl wasn’t taught appropriately in the home. One should be focused on stopping the RAPIST. One should be focused on teaching others not to RAPE. Not ‘oh…this girl just needs to be trained not to be a victim.’ I mean…your thought process on this is the same as people who think women should be in burqas so as not to tempt men to rape them by flashing a sexy, sexy ankle. It’s focusing on what the victim to should have done, not on what the rapist actually DID. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/144 "2011-03-11T16:14:44Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > That’s not victim blaming. > > Victim blaming would be “what did she expect - dressing so sexily?” > > Recognising that an 11 y.o has no place dating and riding around with a 19 y.o is not victim blaming - it is recognising that there is something wrong in her life. > > Identifying that, for whatever reason, her own behaviour is inappropriate for an 11 y.o is discrete and separate from the horror of the rape. To sweep it under the carpet does a disservice to all. What went wrong, why was she doing this, does anybody else bear any culpability for letting the situation arise, is there a culture of little girls dating little men (they are men in age only, not in maturity) in this community that also needs to be addressed. > > If you don’t allow this discussion, as you don’t want to allow you are doing a disservice to the community. > > What this poor little girl did makes no excuses for the men, it does not lessen the severity of it, nor the penalities I would like to see them face - but it should be raised and discussed, not hidden from. The kid was coerced into the car. She didn’t jump in just to joy ride voluntarily. She was told she’d be beaten if she didn’t comply. Calling her own behavior inappropriate implies that she asked for it and that\* is\* blaming the victim. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/145 "2011-03-11T16:23:58Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > …And remember though compassion can be misplaced, it isn’t limited. It’s quite possible to feel bad for this little girl as well as feel bad for the boys who ruined their lives as well… Bingo. By the way, I find it fascinating that many people have been saying, 'oh, these poor little black kids are from the ghetto and don’t have fathers and that is why this is happening" I’ve been hearing a lot of that at work. I haven’t bothered to say anything to them, but I really do think it is interesting that folks have been chalking this up to a ghetto problem. I know the ghetto. I am friends with the ghetto. Regular gang rape of 11 year olds, sir, is not the ghetto. If someone says, “oh, these poor black fatherless kids end up on crack or murdering or selling drugs or being theives” I can understand that, heaven help us. But gang rape? I would call that a horrible, awful anomaly. Not a result of poor black fatherless ghetto kids. My heart breaks for that baby. To have to endure the hard life of being an 11 year old girl in such an environment that such a thing can happen…then have it happen, then have to deal with people judging you for the terrible thing that happened to you. Geez. ETA: …and Markxxx, I realize that you DID NOT say you have compassion for the boys. I am only speaking for myself. The way I snipped your quote didn’t make that clear. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/146 "2011-03-11T16:24:17Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > We may be fighting a losing battle here \*\*bengangmo. \*\* Once **Doggy** gets hold of a stick like this, he’s loathe to let go. Talk about tenacious…reminds me of a Kelpie we had when I was a kid. > > 😛 Dogzilla is female and a rape/abuse survivor. My opinions are based on personal experience. No 11-year-old is emotionally or mentally capable of engaging in a “relationship” with a 19-year-old. That was abuse, plain and simple. Yes, the environment that fostered this abusive situation should be examined. I think there are probably very good reasons the poor child is separated from her family, but I am not convinced that separation is really in her best interests. I do acknowledge that the parents gave up an epic FAIL for being unable to keep their child safe. But she didn’t do a goddamn thing wrong. _Her_ behavior is above reproach, IMO, in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/147 "2011-03-11T16:24:38Z")
The statement that one victim "did everything right and proper implies that this other victim did everything “wrongly and _im_properly.” The only people who have any responsibility in these acts are the rapists. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/148 "2011-03-11T16:27:27Z")
I think that we have already done about as much educating about “not being a victim” as it’s possible to do. Now we need to start educating on “don’t rape, don’t be a party to rape, and don’t just stand by and let a rape happen”. These guys apparently not only felt that it was OK to rape a little girl, but they felt that it was OK to rape in a group, and it was OK to just let the rapes happen. People need to quit covering up for rapists. [http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/police-girl-raped-then-relocated](http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/police-girl-raped-then-relocated) A 15 year old was repeatedly raped by a prominent church member, and when she got pregnant by him, he apologized to the membership for cheating on his wife, while she apologized for getting pregnant. She was forced to move to another state, and nobody reported the rape to the legal authorities. And do I need to bring up a prominent Christian church that has frequently been in the news for systematically moving pedophiles from one parish to another, in order to cover up the problem? We also need to quit slapping rapists on the wrist. We need to treat rape as a SERIOUS CRIME. Sometimes rapists are given long sentences. Too often, they plead to a much lesser offense and don’t even serve any time. College rapists, for instance, just get suspended for a little bit. [College Justice Falls Short For Rape Victim : NPR](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124111931&ps=rs) I think that MOST men would not rape. But there are enough that will rape. And there are enough that might not commit rape themselves, but they’ll look the other way when someone is being sexually assaulted. “Bros before hos” and all that. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/149 "2011-03-11T16:45:52Z")
> [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](#): > > Er…I’m not a town folk, but yeah, I think that 11 year olds should be able to dress and act however they like without ever being gang raped. Nothing they can ever do should ever result in a gang rape. > > And I know ‘people aren’t blaming the victim’ in this thread..but people in this thread have claimed they are not blaming the victim and then called an \*\*11 year old \*\* a ho. Fuck that. I said she was allowed to become the neighborhood gang ho. I also said she’s too young to be held responsible for that, or to be blamed for that. It is what it is. Pretend I said, “she was allowed to become the neighborhood molestation and rape victim.” It is what it is. What it is not, is blaming the victim. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/150 "2011-03-11T16:45:56Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > We also need to quit slapping rapists on the wrist. We need to treat rape as a SERIOUS CRIME. Sometimes rapists are given long sentences. Too often, they plead to a much lesser offense and don’t even serve any time. College rapists, for instance, just get suspended for a little bit. [College Justice Falls Short For Rape Victim : NPR](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124111931&ps=rs) There is a huge dilemma here. Rape is an incredibly difficult crime to prosecute. The conviction rate is low. Even sympathetic prosecutors will often cherry pick the most “sympathetic” cases. Very often, the plea bargain is seen as the only way of getting a conviction at all. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/151 "2011-03-11T16:50:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The statement that one victim "did everything right and proper implies that this other victim did everything “wrongly and _im_properly.” > > The only people who have any responsibility in these acts are the rapists. I would respectfully disagree with you about responsibility. First, let me make this statement, and make it clearly: _The rape victim **is not at fault** ; no one should bear responsibility for making sure they are not raped_. That is unequivocal. _However_ the fact that an _11YO girl_ had an ‘ongoing sexual relationship’ with an adult would lead me to believe that there were many people who failed her _far_ before the rapes took place. Apparently, she never got the message that certain types of physical contact are _not OK_, and may, at some point, have even gotten the message that those same types of physical contact can work in your favor. Whatever her prior situation, it seems to me that she had no one she felt comfortable and safe confiding in. If that is, indeed, the case, then the people who are _responsible_ for being her support system do, indeed, bear some of the responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/152 "2011-03-11T16:59:29Z")
She did not have “an ongoing sexual relationship with an adult.” She was sexually abused by an adult, and he probably wasn’t the first one. Characterizing it as a “relationship” is offensive. > [@](#): > > Apparently, she never got the message that certain types of physical contact are not OK Someone should have told her it wasn’t “ok” for her to get sexually abused. What the hell? It’s not like she ever had any choice in the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/153 "2011-03-11T17:01:19Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I said she was allowed to become the neighborhood gang ho. There is no such thing as an 11 year old “ho.” ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/154 "2011-03-11T17:03:44Z")
> [@villa](#): > > There is a huge dilemma here. Rape is an incredibly difficult crime to prosecute. The conviction rate is low. Even sympathetic prosecutors will often cherry pick the most “sympathetic” cases. Very often, the plea bargain is seen as the only way of getting a conviction at all. Did you even read my cite? Yeah, sometimes a rape case is very much a case of “he said she said”, but when one man has had more than one woman accuse him of rape/sexual assault, maybe, just maybe, he’s sexually assaulting women. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/155 "2011-03-11T17:14:07Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Did you even read my cite? Yeah, sometimes a rape case is very much a case of “he said she said”, but when one man has had more than one woman accuse him of rape/sexual assault, maybe, just maybe, he’s sexually assaulting women. I agree with you, and yes I read the cite. I know that there are some prosecutors who are lax on sexual assault crimes. I also know there are others who very often take what they can get in situations. I also know the difficulty of getting other accusations introduced into evidence. The judicial system isn’t perfect. A prosecutor may be faced with an awkward choice of taking a plea or getting nothing (or may make said decision based on less respectable grounds). Because of the unwitnessed nature of the overwhelming majority of rapes, and the absence of conclusive physical evidence, conviction is going to be often very difficult. Evidence laws are already different when it comes to crimes of sexual assault, with good historic reason. The question we face is how much different do we want to make them in order to ease conviction. Defendants for any crimes have rights. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/156 "2011-03-11T17:24:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She did not have “an ongoing sexual relationship with an adult.” She was sexually abused by an adult, and he probably wasn’t the first one. Characterizing it as a “relationship” is offensive. Thank you! An 11-year old is utterly incapable of having an ongoing sexual relationship with an adult. There is absolutely no situation where such a “relationship” isn’t sexual abuse/molestation of the 11-year old child. This was not the case here, but I do not care if an 11-year old child stripped down and begged to have sex - if an adult follows through, that is sexual abuse and rape. I don’t understand why any one is even debating this. It doesn’t matter where her parents were, it doesn’t matter why she initially got in the car with a 19-year old, it doesn’t matter how she dressed, or if she wore make up. This whole thing is disgusting and I’m with those that not only don’t care if the people responsible for this reprehensible crime have their lives destroyed but actively wish for it. After conviction they should be branded with “Child Rapist” on their foreheads. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/157 "2011-03-11T17:28:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no such thing as an 11 year old “ho.” Okay, I think I know where you’re coming from now. What if I said, “11-year-old prostitute.” You would say, “there is no such thing as an 11 year old prostitute.” You would be correct. And not. Warning: another very disturbing, heinous sexual crime, [At 11, the Youngest Prostitute](http://www.walnet.org/csis/news/vancouver_2001/gandm-010227.html). The little girl in the story is made to be a prostitute. She is also referred to as the victim. But she was still a prostitute. That’s what was done to her. It is what it is.\* I actually hate the term “it is what it is” but it seems appropriate here. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/158 "2011-03-11T17:37:06Z")
> [@Mauvaise](#): > > I don’t understand why any one is even debating this. It doesn’t matter where her parents were, it doesn’t matter why she initially got in the car with a 19-year old, it doesn’t matter how she dressed, or if she wore make up. Indeed. If I rocked up to take an 11 year old out for a date and she was very excited and was telling all her friends how great I am and she soo happy to be in a relationship with me, people should want to fucking lynch me for the abusing child raping motherhumper that I am. The only type of “relationship” here was an abusive and repulsive one and the poor 11 year girl doesn’t have any kind of tools to deal with it or be responsible in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/159 "2011-03-11T17:57:17Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Okay, I think I know where you’re coming from now. What if I said, “11-year-old prostitute.” > > You would say, "there is no such thing as an 11 year old prostitute. Still no such thing. “Prostitute” implies a choice. There are children who are sold sexually for money, yes, but they are slaves, not prostitutes. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070/160 "2011-03-11T18:09:28Z")
Calling it “slavery” should certainly help soften the race angle… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-half-the-town-rape-this-girl/574070.md?page=9)