# Did Helen keller have Some Limited sight/Hearing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 16, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639 "2006-10-16T16:02:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/1 "2006-10-16T16:02:34Z")
I ask because i saw the movie “THE MIRACLE WORKER” 9good flick), and i cannot imagine how anyone born with total blindness and deafness, could ever learn to speak and read. I suspect that Ms. Keller had some limited vision, but in the interests of publicity, she was promoted as being totally blind. Is there any historical eveidence of this? Incidentally, did helen keller ever dream? Assume there is an autobiography out there; just wondering how she experienced dreams 9if she ever described them). ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/2 "2006-10-16T16:05:36Z")
> [@Wikipedia](#): > > She was not born blind and deaf; it was not until nineteen months of age that she came down with an illness described by doctors as “an acute congestion of the stomach and the brain”, which could have possibly been scarlet fever or meningitis. > **[Helen Keller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Keller)** > > Helen Adams Keller (June 27, 1880 – June 1, 1968) was an American author, disability rights advocate, political activist and lecturer. Born in West Tuscumbia, Alabama, she lost her sight and her hearing after a bout of illness when she was 19 months old. She then communicated primarily using home signs until the age of seven, when she met her first teacher and life-long companion Anne Sullivan. Sullivan taught Keller language, including reading and writing. After an education at both speciali... ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/3 "2006-10-16T16:16:47Z")
19 months is plenty old for the speech centers of the brain to get used to the idea of language and the physical mechanisms (tongue, lips, soft palate) to get oriented to speech. Most babies of that age have between 6-20 words. Helen also used around 60 signs that she had made up before Annie came and taught her fingerspelling. Annie’s big breakthrough was not in teaching the \*concept \*of language, but in teaching her a language that could be understood and expanded on by others, or at least how to use Annie as a translator. Annie’s work was amazing, but if Helen had had no exposure to language as an infant, it’s doubtful she would have ever learned to communicate at all. There’s a very specific time for language development, and 7 years old is way past it. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/4 "2006-10-16T16:22:38Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Assume there is an autobiography out there [/QUOTE] No need to assume. It’s out there. [The Story of My Life.](http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/keller/life/life.html) > [@](#): > > Before I lost my sight and hearing, I was fast learning to talk, but after my illness it was found that I had ceased to speak because I could not hear. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/5 "2006-10-16T16:30:47Z")
I believe she was profoundly deaf. Although I know from experience that even profoundly deaf people can feel vibrations.There is a reference to a speech she made in 1952, to the employees of the Library of Congress. The speech had to be translated, as her words were unintelligble. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/6 "2006-10-16T17:09:43Z")
I’ve read her first autobiography, and she was, indeed, completely blind and deaf. Keep in mind that she wrote that first one while still young and (IIRC) in her twenties. She lived to a ripe old age and wrote two more autobiographies. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/7 "2006-10-16T17:48:11Z")
Note that “profoundly deaf” doesn’t neccesarily mean stone deaf. “Profoundly deaf” mostly means that the person has lost so much sensitivity in the ranges used by the human voice that they can’t understand speech. Very few people are really totally 100% deaf. That doesn’t mean that they get any useful information from sound. My nephew is profoundly deaf, he can’t hear human voices at all, but he can hear sonic booms, loud clashing metal noises, and other things of that nature. Of course, charting the exact deficit that Helen Keller had would be impossible before modern techniques. But it’s clear that she couldn’t hear or understand talking, otherwise no one would have called her “deaf”. As a practical matter, that’s what deafness means. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/8 "2006-10-16T17:57:06Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] 19 months is plenty old for the speech centers of the brain to get used to the idea of language and the physical mechanisms (tongue, lips, soft palate) to get oriented to speech. Most babies of that age have between 6-20 words. [/quote] Of course, HK was undoubtedly a genius, and must have had command of many more words than that. It follows that she would have had a more solid memory of language sounds to draw on. Sometimes it absolutely floors me what handicapped people are capable of. Ray Charles, as a kid, used to ride a bike around town, and later, a motorbike! And HK, of course, went on to college and embarked on a career as a prominent speaker, author, and activist. She certainly had necessary help on the way, like interpreters and such, but she was very self motivated. She was not “promoted” by anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/9 "2006-10-16T19:33:35Z")
> [@](#): > > The speech had to be translated, as her words were unintelligble. Nitty Pick: Who translated if her words were unintelligible? Annie? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/10 "2006-10-16T19:37:01Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] Of course, HK was undoubtedly a genius, and must have had command of many more words than that. It follows that she would have had a more solid memory of language sounds to draw on. Sometimes it absolutely floors me what handicapped people are capable of. Ray Charles, as a kid, used to ride a bike around town, and later, a motorbike! And HK, of course, went on to college and embarked on a career as a prominent speaker, author, and activist. She certainly had necessary help on the way, like interpreters and such, but she was very self motivated. She was not “promoted” by anyone. [/QUOTE] Ray Charles, as a kid, used to ride a bike around town, and later, a motorbike! :eek: Could you please provide me with some proof of this assertion? how on earth would a blind person be able to ride a bicycle, and know where to turn, stop , etc.? I’m not sure this would ever be possible! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/11 "2006-10-16T19:50:48Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Ray Charles, as a kid, used to ride a bike around town, and later, a motorbike! :eek: Could you please provide me with some proof of this assertion? how on earth would a blind person be able to ride a bicycle, and know where to turn, stop , etc.? I’m not sure this would ever be possible! :eek: [/QUOTE] There was just a thing on 20/20 about a blind kid that can shoot baskets, ride a skate board and bike, and do all kinds of stuff you wouldn’t think he can do. AND HE HAS NO EYEBALLS. He makes clicking sounds and works with the echo from those clicks. It’s astonishing, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/12 "2006-10-16T20:10:47Z")
That’s no kid, that’s a bat. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/13 "2006-10-16T23:03:44Z")
[QUOTE=Jake] Nitty Pick: Who translated if her words were unintelligible? Annie? [/QUOTE] Keller seems to have employed people specifically to do translation services. _Time_ referenced the death of one of them in 1960. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/14 "2006-10-16T23:34:17Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Ray Charles, as a kid, used to ride a bike around town, and later, a motorbike! :eek: Could you please provide me with some proof of this assertion? how on earth would a blind person be able to ride a bicycle, and know where to turn, stop , etc.? I’m not sure this would ever be possible! :eek: [/QUOTE] He said so in his autobiography, here: [Brother Ray](http://www.amazon.com/Brother-Ray-Charles-Own-Story/dp/0306814315/sr=8-1/qid=1161041608/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-7227896-5529723?ie=UTF8). ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/15 "2006-10-16T23:38:45Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] He said so in his autobiography, here: [Brother Ray](http://www.amazon.com/Brother-Ray-Charles-Own-Story/dp/0306814315/sr=8-1/qid=1161041608/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-7227896-5529723?ie=UTF8). [/QUOTE] Meant to say also, that, at one point, his proficiency in getting around occasioned an official challenge to his right to attend the state school for the blind and deaf at state expense. This was dropped after his blindness was verified. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/16 "2006-10-17T00:37:13Z")
My Grandfather met HK several times. She would come in to his store to buy candy (he made great butter scotch). He said she was kind of a jerk. But then again, he was a curmudgeon. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/17 "2006-10-17T00:47:31Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Annie’s work was amazing, but if Helen had had no exposure to language as an infant, it’s doubtful she would have ever learned to communicate at all. There’s a very specific time for language development, and 7 years old is way past it. [/QUOTE] It’s a bit later than 7 years; the turning point is usually in the early teens. Some feral children or children raised in isolation seem to be OK at language provided they’re reintroduced into society by early puberty. Genie, a famous 20th-century child raised almost in isolation until she was 13, was rescued just in time for her to develop some rudimentary language skills. The oldest feral child known to have subsequently learned language was probably Kaspar Hauser, who is thought to have been as old as 18 when he was released from a dungeon and introduced into society. He ended up learning to speak and write quite well, leading some to suspect that he must have had some contact with language as an infant. Kaspar himself claimed he had no recollection of any experiences outside his dungeon, though. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/18 "2006-10-17T01:18:27Z")
I don’t know that I’d consider Genie’s language any more developed than that of a macaw. She learned labels and words, but never learned to put them together in a sentence. Kaspar, as you say, is mostly thought to have had language before his isolation. His case is made muddier simply because it’s so old - he was found in 1828. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/19 "2006-10-17T01:52:38Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Ray Charles, as a kid, used to ride a bike around town, and later, a motorbike! :eek: Could you please provide me with some proof of this assertion? how on earth would a blind person be able to ride a bicycle, and know where to turn, stop , etc.? I’m not sure this would ever be possible! :eek: [/QUOTE] Ray Charles, in his autobiography _Brother Ray_: > [@](#): > > I was treated like I was normal. I acted like I was normal. And I wound up doing exactly the same things normal people do. > > Take my bicycle. Somehow — I can’t remember the exact circumstances — I was given one. Couldn’t have been much older than ten or eleven. Riding was something I learned to do quickly. I loved the feeling of motion, and being blind wasn’t gonna stop me from enjoying the bike. > > I knew practically every road and dirt pathway in town, so getting round was no problem. (If you go to Greenville today and ask about me, I bet the thing they remember the most is the way I raced around town on my bike, as though I had 20/20.) > > Somewhere in the back of my mind I knew I wasn’t going to hurt myself. Sure, I rode pretty fast, but my hearing was good and my instincts were sharp. Can’t even remember a close call. Later, > [@](#): > > Then there were motorcycles. I learned to ride one in Tallahassee when I was about fourteen or fifteen. I had a friend who owned one. During the day he worked at a drugstore where he made deliveries using the store’s motorbike. That meant I could borrow his. > > I got to know the town pretty well, and soon I felt confident about riding around. Tallahassee was full of hills, and I loved racing up and down 'em, sometimes trailing my friend or riding next to him, so I could hear the sound of the exhaust and make sure to follow closely and yet not too closely. > > I know it sounds strange — a blind teenager buzzin’ around on a motorcycle — but I liked that; that was me. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639/20 "2006-10-17T05:53:24Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Incidentally, did helen keller ever dream? Assume there is an autobiography out there; just wondering how she experienced dreams 9if she ever described them). [/QUOTE] Cecil mentions this here: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2\_310.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_310.html) > [@](#): > > To some extent, I gather, the lack of visual elements in the dreams of the blind can be counteracted by force of imagination. Helen Keller, who became blind at the age of 19 months, claimed to have “visions of ineffable beauty.” These ran to things like pearls. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-helen-keller-have-some-limited-sight-hearing/376639.md?page=2)