# Did Hillary's camp focus too much on her potentially being the first female president? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 8, 2017, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796 "2017-09-08T09:42:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/201 "2017-09-18T13:43:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Not nearly as bullshit as blaming the 50 year old man’s wife for them. But some people do insist on blaming Hillary for everything regardless of how much sense it makes. I have not heard anyone blaming her for Bill’s infidelity. I have heard people criticize her for throwing other women under the bus to preserve Bill’s political capital (which she would inherit when he left the white house). ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/202 "2017-09-18T13:46:17Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Funny how he marches with MLK, and he’s a racist? > > I’m not saying that Hillary was a racist at all, but she was the “Goldwater girl”, and used the term “Super Predators”… so Hillary supporters shouldn’t throw stones. That’s highlights a major problem with the entire “Saint Hillary” line of attack. Hillary wanted to paint her opponents (especially Trump) as bad, and by extension her as good and pure. But in addition to not wanting to really dig in to the mud and try to make it stick (unlike Trump’s “lock her up” chants), a lot of the negative campaigning also pointed out her lack of saintliness. You mentioned Sanders and how her attempts to paint him as a racist highlighted the ‘super predators’ work she did, and I think it happened even more with Trump. Trump’s so repulsive no one should even think about getting near him, but she was happy to be at his wedding. Trump’s sexist comments are so awful no one should think about voting for him because that’s wrong, but she’ll defend the most powerful man in the world using his position to bang interns (and other Slick Willy shenanigans). Trump’s dishonest and untrustworthy, but she’s a career politician with decades of scandals, and handled the big one during the campaign awfully. Yeah, she’s certainly not as bad as Trump, but she’s also got enough dirt on her that pointing at Trump and saying “he’s so bad, you must vote for me” just didn’t work. I know that for me all of the ‘Saint Hillary’ stuff made me feel worse about voting for her, and turnout was a huge problem for her campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/203 "2017-09-18T13:52:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > We’re not even “slutshaming” Monica, so the point is moot. See post 160. Would you say that was slutshaming if we said that about some woman that had a politically damaging affair with a Republican? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/204 "2017-09-18T13:56:20Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > That’s the wrong response if you hope for the Democrats to do well in the coming elections. > > > > The Democratic Party needs to discuss why it chose Hillary over Bernie. And then why they didn’t turn out in the numbers they did for Barry. If they don’t continue discussing these issues now, it’s going to be restarted during the 2020 primaries. The sooner the party can get past this, by talking through, rather than avoiding, the better. > > Here’s the thing: it wasn’t just the democratic machine that selected Hillary Clinton. She actually won more votes than Bernie Sanders. Why did she get more votes in the Democratic party? Oh I don’t know, maybe because she had been among the most recognizable democrats for 30 years and ran as a Democrat whereas her opponent had been an independent and ran as a Democrat to get more attention. These sorts of inaccuracies in describing Hillary Clinton’s nomination aren’t helping, either. You are badly misreading me. When I say “the Democratic Party chose Hillary over Bernie” I mean precisely that. The whole party, not the leadership or DNC. “Chose”, not “rigged”. That is, pretty much the opposite of what you’re inferring. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/205 "2017-09-18T14:19:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I have not heard anyone blaming her for Bill’s infidelity. I have heard people criticize her for throwing other women under the bus to preserve Bill’s political capital (which she would inherit when he left the white house). See post #87. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > See post 160. Would you say that was slutshaming if we said that about some woman that had a politically damaging affair with a Republican? Post 160 isn’t slutshaming Monica; it’s mocking your ludicrous characterization of events. So no, I wouldn’t say that. It’s not slutshaming to point out that Monica was a willing - nay, initiating - participant in the encounter. She wasn’t coerced in any way by Bill (nor by Hillary) and it’s a little odd to pretend that a 22-year-old - particularly a 22-year-old capable enough to get a job in the White House - didn’t have agency in the matter. To the extent she and Bill deserved to be shamed it’s not for the sex per se but for the infidelity, and the blame there falls more heavily on Bill. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/206 "2017-09-18T16:30:17Z")
Point is, it’s all Hillary’s fault for being \*such \*a whatever and anything she could have done or said would be wrong. That’s about it, right? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/207 "2017-09-18T18:14:39Z")
I’d just like to ask, did any of you attend either a Hillary or Bernie rally? Did any of your local parades have floats for Bernie or Hillary? What bumper stickers were you seeing? As for rallies a friend went to one which was PACKED with lines down the block while I read Hillaries had to use celebrities to bring in people and/or used camera tricks to pretend their was an excited crowd. Some interesting videos: Video of [crowd chanting “Bernie” over Hillary.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpce0faSaFA) Video of [Bernie shutting down Hillary in debate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54jAtJ5HykM) ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/208 "2017-09-18T19:46:22Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’d just like to ask, did any of you attend either a Hillary or Bernie rally? > > Did any of your local parades have floats for Bernie or Hillary? > > What bumper stickers were you seeing? > > As for rallies a friend went to one which was PACKED with lines down the block while I read Hillaries had to use celebrities to bring in people and/or used camera tricks to pretend their was an excited crowd. > > Some interesting videos: > > Video of [crowd chanting “Bernie” over Hillary.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpce0faSaFA) > > Video of [Bernie shutting down Hillary in debate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54jAtJ5HykM) I went to a Bernie Rally… the kids love him. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/209 "2017-09-18T20:09:16Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Point is, it’s all Hillary’s fault for being \*such \*a whatever and anything she could have done or said would be wrong. > > That’s about it, right? That’s it. Hillary, who, like every human being, is imperfect, has become the scapegoat for whatever resentments seethe inside any particular opinor. Everything she does and everything she says is, _by definition_, wrong. Take the ‘she threw Bill’s accusers under the bus’ article of anti-Hillary faith, for example: what wife _praises_ the women with whom her husband commited adultery? Common sense is banished when it comes to our universal scapegoat, who is symbolically imbued with every negative trait; she is simply _always incorrect._ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/210 "2017-09-18T20:13:23Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > That’s it. > > Hillary, who, like every human being, is imperfect, has become the scapegoat for whatever resentments seethe inside any particular opinor. Everything she does and everything she says is, _by definition_, wrong. > > Take the ‘she threw Bill’s accusers under the bus’ article of anti-Hillary faith, for example: what wife _praises_ the women with whom her husband commited adultery? That might make some sense if those were the only two options. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/211 "2017-09-18T20:41:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That might make some sense if those were the only two options. Sure, there are women who studiously say nothing about their husbands’ playmates. And let’s face it, many feel that the correct rule of conduct for the female of the species, _in general_, is “Women should be seen and not heard.” But the point is that there are millions of women who _do_ say unkind things about the ‘other woman’—yet are not held up as examples of horrible behavior, for so doing. Many (other than strict male supremacists) seem to feel that it’s reasonably _understandable_ for a woman to say unkind things about the ‘other woman.’ Not for Hillary, though. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/212 "2017-09-18T20:52:03Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Hillary, who, like every human being, is imperfect, has become the scapegoat for whatever resentments seethe inside any particular opinor. Everything she does and everything she says is, _by definition_, wrong. Kinda like Trump then. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/213 "2017-09-18T21:12:39Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Kinda like Trump then. Trump is more like Martin Shkreli: many, many people look at each of his actions and each of his utterances and find each one to be appalling–because they actually are. (To large numbers of people, anyway. I suppose even Martin must have his fans.) Some people are criticized _legitimately_. Hillary, by contrast, gets heaped with derision for doing things that other people also do, though those other people aren’t heaped with derision for doing those things. Examples: wearing a pantsuit, or writing a book in which each sentence fails to be “I’m an awful person.” Many other people have written books containing numerous sentences _other_ than “I’m an awful person”—without being disparaged for it. (True!) Similarly, many women have worn pantsuits without being scorned and derided for it. But our Universal Scapegoat is always in the wrong–even for things that other people do without incurring criticism. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/214 "2017-09-18T22:43:26Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Sure, there are women who studiously say nothing about their husbands’ playmates. And let’s face it, many feel that the correct rule of conduct for the female of the species, _in general_, is “Women should be seen and not heard.” > > But the point is that there are millions of women who _do_ say unkind things about the ‘other woman’—yet are not held up as examples of horrible behavior, for so doing. Many (other than strict male supremacists) seem to feel that it’s reasonably _understandable_ for a woman to say unkind things about the ‘other woman.’ > > Not for Hillary, though. Can you think of any significant difference between Hillary and those millions of other women you mention? Anything at all? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/215 "2017-09-18T23:05:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can you think of any significant difference between Hillary and those millions of other women you mention? Anything at all? You mean as in ‘she’s the most uppity woman who ever lived’…? Running for _President_!! Unspeakable. Insupportable. _Intolerable_. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/216 "2017-09-19T01:04:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can you think of any significant difference between Hillary and those millions of other women you mention? Anything at all? She didn’t know enough to keep in her place and shut up if she knew what was good for her, you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/217 "2017-09-19T09:51:06Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > That’s it. > > Hillary, who, like every human being, is imperfect, has become the scapegoat for whatever resentments seethe inside any particular opinor. Everything she does and everything she says is, _by definition_, wrong. > > Take the ‘she threw Bill’s accusers under the bus’ article of anti-Hillary faith, for example: what wife _praises_ the women with whom her husband commited adultery? > > Common sense is banished when it comes to our universal scapegoat, who is symbolically imbued with every negative trait; she is simply _always incorrect._ Also, she clearly only stayed with Bill after doing the political calculations to show that staying married played better in Peoria. It’s unthinkable that she might actually still \*\*love \*\* the big two-timing jerk (well, a lot more than two, to be fair). Presumably she only had a child because it focus-grouped well. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/218 "2017-09-19T13:32:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > See post #87. I almost never agree with urbanrenec and I don’t agree with that post either but I don’t see him blaming Hillary for Bill’s infidelity. Can you explain how that post is blaming Hillary for Bill’s infidelity? > [@](#): > > Post 160 isn’t slutshaming Monica; it’s mocking your ludicrous characterization of events. So no, I wouldn’t say that. I was responding to a post that said in part: "the intern in question was the one that initiated that particular sexual encounter (which involved no “banging” except of the finger (and cigar) variety), " So I said: “you don’t get to blame a 22 year old woman for the infidelities of a 50 year old man. That’s kind of bullshit isn’t it?” Merneith responded: "You can certainly blame the 22 year old for her own active participation in a destructive and deceitful event. It’s not like she was just going about her day, minding her own business, when suddenly Bill’s dick fell in her mouth. " Blaming Monica for letting the most powerful man in the free world’s dick fall into her mouth seems like slutshaming. If the same thing had happened with Trump, people would be lining up to support all the poor women who were sexually harassed by him and would be much less critical of any young 22 year old woman that let his dick fall into their mouth. > [@](#): > > It’s not slutshaming to point out that Monica was a willing - nay, initiating - participant in the encounter. She wasn’t coerced in any way by Bill (nor by Hillary) and it’s a little odd to pretend that a 22-year-old - particularly a 22-year-old capable enough to get a job in the White House - didn’t have agency in the matter. Are sluts usually assumed to be unwilling or incapable of making decisions? That would be closer to rape or sexual assault, wouldn’t it? It is exactly that willingness that people point to when they label women sluts. Monica started with an unpaid internship. Do you know how you get a internship in the white house? The most common avenue is having family members that make a assload of political donations. She got a paid gig after she started having sexual relations with Bill. What makes you say she initiated the relationship, not that I don’t believe you or that it matters but I had not heard this? > [@](#): > > To the extent she and Bill deserved to be shamed it’s not for the sex per se but for the infidelity, and the blame there falls more heavily on Bill. I don’t know how you separate the sex from the infidelity. There is a long history of the “other woman” getting treated like a leper for life while the husband recovers their status after a period of contrition. And Hillary was critical of all he women who accused Bill of sexual harassment because she was trying to protect her political capital and she didn’t give a shit about those women so according to Madeleine Albright, there is probably a special place in hell for her. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/219 "2017-09-19T13:39:15Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > That’s it. > > Hillary, who, like every human being, is imperfect, has become the scapegoat for whatever resentments seethe inside any particular opinor. Everything she does and everything she says is, _by definition_, wrong. > > Take the ‘she threw Bill’s accusers under the bus’ article of anti-Hillary faith, for example: what wife _praises_ the women with whom her husband commited adultery? > > Common sense is banished when it comes to our universal scapegoat, who is symbolically imbued with every negative trait; she is simply _always incorrect._ And why would you nominate such an unpopular person to be president? Sounds like a bonehead move. Washington DC is filled to overflowing with hard working, capable, competent people, with a vast wealth of policy knowledge. What makes Hillary better than them? She was supposed to be electable and able to put some of those policies into action. A politician who can’t get elected without the party clearing the field for her is a shitty politician. She doesn’t have to praise the women her husband sexually assaulted but she didn’t have to throw them under the bus either. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/220 "2017-09-19T13:40:15Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Sure, there are women who studiously say nothing about their husbands’ playmates. And let’s face it, many feel that the correct rule of conduct for the female of the species, _in general_, is “Women should be seen and not heard.” > > But the point is that there are millions of women who _do_ say unkind things about the ‘other woman’—yet are not held up as examples of horrible behavior, for so doing. Many (other than strict male supremacists) seem to feel that it’s reasonably _understandable_ for a woman to say unkind things about the ‘other woman.’ > > Not for Hillary, though. You would have a point if that were the only example of her horrible behavior. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796.md?page=12)