# Did Hillary's camp focus too much on her potentially being the first female president? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 8, 2017, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796 "2017-09-08T09:42:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/121 "2017-09-13T15:59:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Oops. Second + 3rd sentences. > [@Pleonast](#): > > Too many people castigate Clinton for not accepting her faults for losing the election. But that avoids who is most culpable for her loss: the American people. I think you’re misinterpreting me. I’m not making an either-or dichotomy, I’m saying both forks are true and too many people are considering only one. That is, it’s not enough to blame Clinton, convenient though it may be; we need to reflect on the fact that it is we who failed to elect her. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t accept the concept of collective guilt, especially for those who took action to prevent the thing that caused the guilt. That’s okay, I’ll still blame you just as much as I blame myself. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/122 "2017-09-13T16:28:43Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > This is so far from the truth it’s laughable. It was Clinton who did not study for the final exam, and arrogantly thought she would win because she had it in the bag for years. It was Trump who figured out how best to manipulate the media for free advertising, did not spend anywhere close to the advertising dollars that Clinton spent, and figured out how to win the race, and worked hard to win it. > > At first, yes, Clinton was the A+ student in the classroom, but she did not **work** to win the race. **She campaigned on name calling and it’s my turn.** She spent much more than Trump did and squandered her great, inherent political advantages to lose a race that was hers to win. That is far from being Presidential material. She is the biggest loser ever, conceptually speaking, in US Presidential elections. [Bolding mine] Clinton had an extensive range of detailed policies that she campaigned on. Of course, between the media only wanting soundbites, Trump drawing all the newscycle oxygen out of the room with his latest daily outrageous pronouncement, and the right-wing smear machine continuing its decades-long campaign against her, it kind of got lost in the noise. Yes, she had plenty of blunders along the way and the work she did was often not the right work to win over voters, but “She campaigned on name calling and it’s my turn” is a gross mischaracterization of her campaign. Perhaps the question you need to ask isn’t why she didn’t work enough but rather why so many people have such a skewed view of what she did do. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/123 "2017-09-13T18:55:50Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > That’s okay, I’ll still blame you just as much as I blame myself. 😃 I have a better idea. You can take as much blame as you like, and I’ll pass. Win-win. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/124 "2017-09-13T19:23:35Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > [Bolding mine] > > Clinton had an extensive range of detailed policies that she campaigned on. Of course, between the media only wanting soundbites, Trump drawing all the newscycle oxygen out of the room with his latest daily outrageous pronouncement, and the right-wing smear machine continuing its decades-long campaign against her, it kind of got lost in the noise. Yes, she had plenty of blunders along the way and the work she did was often not the right work to win over voters, but “She campaigned on name calling and it’s my turn” is a gross mischaracterization of her campaign. > > Perhaps the question you need to ask isn’t why she didn’t work enough but rather why so many people have such a skewed view of what she did do. The fact that the more ‘progressive’ policies were not what she started with, but simply adopted over the campaign to counter Dread Pirate Sanders and his terrifying Bernie Bros, as in '_I can promise Left stuff too ( but not too Left )',_ led to a considerable understanding that having won she would junk those extreme policies she would reconsider as unwise, and swing like a teetotum back to the Right-Centre. It’s not as if she was known for an iron integrity in sticking to positions right or wrong. _‘Here I stand [for now], I can do no other [unless there are more votes to be got by flip-flopping].’_ ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/125 "2017-09-13T19:37:06Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Your narrative of the campaign says a lot about you, but not much about what [actually](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/284287-clinton-all-of-trumps-books-end-at-chapter-11) happened. > > Clinton routinely attacked Trump in just the way you wish she had, over and over, including in the widely watched debates. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Much in the same way people keep saying she should have spoken about “jobs” even though “jobs” was the subject she spoke most about during the campaign. I don’t think it’s a matter of keeping a word count. She wasn’t good at the smear tactics, they didn’t strike a chord with Trump’s base, and didn’t do anything to get her own base out to vote. She didn’t develop a negative narrative about him, just pot shots. Part of the problem was that she and the DNC were convinced they had the election sewn up instead of mounting a serious consistent negative campaign against him. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/126 "2017-09-13T19:44:13Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t think it’s a matter of keeping a word count. She wasn’t good at the smear tactics, they didn’t strike a chord with Trump’s base, and didn’t do anything to get her own base out to vote. She didn’t develop a negative narrative about him, just pot shots. Part of the problem was that she and the DNC were convinced they had the election sewn up instead of mounting a serious consistent negative campaign against him. IOW, it’s not about stuff you can measure and cite, it’s about my own untestable subjective impressions. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/127 "2017-09-13T19:52:27Z")
How could Hillary possibly go after Trump on his business ventures when she has zip knowledge of business herself? Yes, she was a business lawyer but she got that thru an inside channel. Her and Bill have never owned a successful business. The Clinton foundation is full of scandal too. So frankly if she tried he would just say “so what the hell do you know about business?”. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/128 "2017-09-13T19:58:52Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It’s not worse because of any self-promotion. It’s worse because it was Donald Trump. She lost to the least qualified person in the history of elections. The guy wasn’t qualified to run for mayor. And he’s cartoonishly evil: Lex Luthor becoming president made more sense. > > That people picked him over her is devestating not just to her, but a whole lot of us. I now know that America is not the place I thought it was. Because even if everything everyone said about Clinton was 100% true, and she was completely wrong on every political issue, she’s still orders of magnitude better than Trump. > > I mean, she was the Christian candidate. But the Christians went for the goddamned atheist who shat on our veterans and didn’t think he needed to be forgiven. Women picked the guy who said he could grab their pussies and they wouldn’t mind because he’s rich. The guy you know would attack you personally if it would make him money. > > It is devastating. I’ve lost friends over this. I never care who you vote for. I did this time, because Trump was just so obviously evil. I am a Christian, and genuinely now think half the Christians I know are going to hell, because they clearly weren’t listening to God’s moral guidance. Hillary a Christian? She had Beyoncé as her spokesperson. Have you ever seen her videos? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/129 "2017-09-13T20:17:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I mean, she was the Christian candidate…I am a Christian, and genuinely now think half the Christians I know are going to hell, because they clearly weren’t listening to God’s moral guidance. So basically, “Vote Clinton or GO TO HELL!!!” Literally. I don’t recall God telling me that I had to vote for Clinton or my Immortal Soul was in danger of Everlasting Hellfire. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/130 "2017-09-13T20:31:23Z")
Yeah, that’s more their schtick. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/131 "2017-09-13T20:40:09Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I am a Christian, and genuinely now think half the Christians I know are going to hell, because\*\* they clearly weren’t listening to God’s moral guidance.\*\* ISTM you think your viewpoint/opinion = “God’s moral guidance.” ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/132 "2017-09-13T20:44:46Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > IOW, it’s not about stuff you can measure and cite, it’s about my own untestable subjective impressions. Fair enough; at least you admit it. > [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > So basically, “Vote Clinton or GO TO HELL!!!” Literally. I don’t recall God telling me that I had to vote for Clinton or my Immortal Soul was in danger of Everlasting Hellfire. Do you not read the words of His blessed vessel, Big T, who channels His Righteous Decrees, reverently and in obedience ? ‘_What must I do, to save my soul alive ?_’ Hearken to His messenger. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/133 "2017-09-13T20:50:03Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > ISTM you think your viewpoint/opinion = “God’s moral guidance.” It’s also not the first time he has expressed such views that his opinion equals the word of GOD! ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/134 "2017-09-13T20:54:53Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > How could Hillary possibly go after Trump on his business ventures when she has zip knowledge of business herself? > > Yes, she was a business lawyer but she got that thru an inside channel. She was a very able lawyer for Walmart, serving on their board, and earning deep accolades from Old Sam Walmart: his daughter is one of her richest supporters. Certainly, her expertise may have been in blocking Unions and encouraging them to hire more women like her rather than stock-control and accountancy, but rightwingers should admire that. Reason Magazine praises her Walmartian ties. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/135 "2017-09-13T21:49:07Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > IOW, it’s not about stuff you can measure and cite, it’s about my own untestable subjective impressions. What on earth are you talking about? You are aware of the result of the election right? Hillary lost despite her repeating the magic words you cited. How can you explain that? Do you suppose an election might be more complicated than just uttering the right buzz words while campaigning? ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/136 "2017-09-13T22:48:35Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > [Bolding mine] > > Clinton had an extensive range of detailed policies that she campaigned on. Of course, between the media only wanting soundbites, Trump drawing all the newscycle oxygen out of the room with his latest daily outrageous pronouncement, and the right-wing smear machine continuing its decades-long campaign against her, it kind of got lost in the noise. Yes, she had plenty of blunders along the way and the work she did was often not the right work to win over voters, but “She campaigned on name calling and it’s my turn” is a gross mischaracterization of her campaign. > > Perhaps the question you need to ask isn’t why she didn’t work enough but rather why so many people have such a skewed view of what she did do. She _had_ an extensive range of detailed policies, but I never felt like she campaigned on them. She mainly talked about how terrible Trump was. She gave speeches aimed at Republicans saying that Trump is so bad, and so unlike a normal Republican, that it’s ok to vote for her just this once. I don’t recall her making any big pushes based on policy. She had a position on the minimum wage listed on her website, but when did she ever hit the stump for it? She had a plan for student debt relief, but did she ever go campaigning in college towns to advocate it? We all know she was more pro-immigrant than Trump, but where were the campaign events promoting her comprehensive immigration reform plan? One of the biggest lines of attack against her was that she was in bed with Goldman Sachs, so why didn’t she go around talking about financial regulation? She had all these positions, but she didn’t do a good job (or much of a job at all) of publicizing them. Trump’s policies were half-baked at best, but he did campaign on things like building the wall. He also had the “lock her up” stuff, but it wasn’t just that. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/137 "2017-09-14T00:14:26Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think Hillary’s post-election book writing and media appearances are her way of dealing with the personal devastation of losing in the most stunning upset in American political history. I mean, she was the A+ student who sat at the front of the class, took notes, asked questions, and went to office hours, and the guy who drank a case of beer every night, date-raped chicks, and watched porn, and only showed up on mid-term and finals day hungover ended up getting a better grade than she did. That’s what sucks. She’ll never get over it. She’s really a lot more like a kid who got As in high school so figured she could coast in college. So she didn’t sit at the front of the class, take notes, or ask questions, instead she was sure she already knew what to do and didn’t need anyone else (including her husband) telling her any information, or to pay attention to any polls that said she might be having problems. She didn’t turn up to class or do the homework if it was a hard or boring (skipped Wisconsin entirely, mostly ignored flyover country) and preferred to go to parties rather than study (big celebrity rallies instead of the campaign work that she considered beneath her). Meanwhile Trump is the guy who wasn’t very bright but turned up at every class, actually took notes, and had a tutor come and help him who he listened to - he had strategists and listened to them, and he paid attention to poll results. He went to all of the classes and did all of the boring homework like campaigning in flyover states. Then in the end she’s shocked that she lost because she got an overall D (but she got a B- in California! and she got a plurality, but not a majority, of the vote for ‘most likely to succeed’) and he got a C-, edging her for the highest grade award. I don’t doubt that she sees it like your analogy, but the fact is that she simply wasn’t anything like a straight-A student who sat at the front of the class. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/138 "2017-09-14T00:28:39Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > I don’t recall her making any big pushes based on policy. Same here - there just wasn’t much emphasis on them, and very little message made it’s way out, much less made its way to the mouths of her supporters. Yeah, there was some substantive policy stuff on her website, but that’s not pushing the policies, that’s just barely putting them out for really motivated people to see. And it doesn’t help that no one really expected her to stick to policies that she put on the website but didn’t make a big deal out of - for example her campaign-time opposition to the TPP was widely expected to reverse in office (lots of her supporters criticized Trump for rejecting it like Hillary’s campaign said she would). ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/139 "2017-09-14T00:31:13Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > But I’m sure you’ll continue to define “major” in whatever way suits your point that Hillary is a bad woman. I don’t define ‘said it in one speech’ as a major part of her campaign, no. It wasn’t what was shouted at her rallies or what she spent a lot of time on. And this thread has nothing to do with whether Hillary is a bad woman, it’s about her campaign. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796/140 "2017-09-14T02:45:41Z")
I’m done with analyzing Hillary Clinton’s failures and what she didn’t do to attract Archie Bunker. Hillary’s in our rear view mirror. The bigger question is, how do we save America from thicker than pig shit paranoid white “working class” :rolleyes: voters? Do we pander to them and speak to them “dumbly,” or do we actually try to sell them on programs and policies that are going to be to everyone’s benefit, including theirs? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-hillarys-camp-focus-too-much-on-her-potentially-being-the-first-female-president/795796.md?page=8)