# Did I ever tell you about grunge? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 26, 2003, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939 "2003-09-26T10:34:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/1 "2003-09-26T10:34:39Z")
Did I ever tell you about how two minor-key guitar chords cut across the sludge of the New Kids, Vanilla Ice and Tiffany and struck deep into my heart? Did I ever tell you about seeing the same band end their performance on Saturday Night Live by smashing their instruments, and thinking, "Well, that’s hardly original…but it sure beats a stage full of guys going, “Yo yo yo!” Did I ever tell you about not washing my hair and making little braids that I fastened with twist ties? Did I ever tell you about late nights spent talking and smoking and wondering if that photo on a Jane’s Addiction CD was for real? (Not the manikins on fire; another one, inside. I don’t feel like describing it, if I even could.) Did I ever tell you about two guys, one named Paul Westerberg, the other Michael Stipe, who would talk to anyone with a tape recorder or notepad? And I would read it, every word, every time. Did I ever tell you about the runaway train that never came back? About the Bee Girl? About Jeremy, who spoke in class today? About stage diving? About Lollapalloza, and the irony of singing along with “Rape Me” while wearing a tank top and painted-on shorts? About seeing the Black Crowes at…well, I forget where it was, but he really was dancing barefoot? About getting tickets to see Soul Asylum at Metropole, and having it cancelled by the blizzard of '92? About “Hate” comics, and saying, “Of COURSE it’s set in Seattle!” About singing backup on your friend’s band’s album, and helping them sell the cassettes, and videotaping their concert, and all that other I’m-with-the-band stuff? About seeing Rusted Root when they were still a local band, and not wanting to admit that they were better than your friend’s band? Did I ever tell you about the time Rilchiam got loaded and went through her cassette box? ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/2 "2003-09-26T10:40:30Z")
Yes, sweety. Now please, don’t tell us again. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/3 "2003-09-26T10:42:12Z")
Seriously though, do you believe in Grunge? I don’t believe it ever really existed. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/4 "2003-09-26T11:07:23Z")
It did, it did. It was a brief pocket of time, about three years and a bit, beginning with the release of _Nevermind_ in the fall of 1990, and ending, not with the death of Kurt Cobain in the summer of '94, but with the cancellation of Lollapalloza, shortly before that. ---
**Author:** ![nitroglycerine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@nitroglycerine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nitroglycerine)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/5 "2003-09-26T12:06:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \* > \*\*It did, it did. It was a brief pocket of time, about three years and a bit, beginning with the release of _Nevermind_ in the fall of 1990, and ending, not with the death of Kurt Cobain in the summer of '94, but with the cancellation of Lollapalloza, shortly before that. \*\* Sorry, but grunge, if it existed, existed long before Nevermind. Even if you’re going on the false presumption that grunge (which didn’t exist) started with Nirvana, Bleach was a lot more “grunge” than Nevermind. Grunge was just a mass marketing lable that lumped various NW punk, metal, indie and 60s influenced Blue Cheer style (like Mudhoney) bands together, even though they had nothing in common. Jon ---
**Author:** ![widdershins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f0a364/32.png) [@widdershins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/widdershins)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/6 "2003-09-26T12:12:41Z")
Ooo! Ooo! How could you forget: All those discussions people actually had about whether Stone Temple Pilots were “fake grunge” or not? Or the Seattle “dream couple” of Kurt and Courtney getting married and having little Frances Bean? And the heroin rumors. If we only knew then… Or Krist (Chris) Novoselic bashing his head open on TV trying to catch his bass one more time? Or when Pearl Jam not only made videos but appeared in them? Or laughing because _Singles_ was already obsolete when it came out? Or actually wanting to hear “Rooster” or “Man In The Box” by Alice In Chains on the radio, rather than wishing they wouldn’t keep playing them over and over again? It’s sad to think that the Gen X equivalent of the question “Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings?” might very likely be “Chris Cornell was in a band before Audioslave?” Or when the Temple of The Dog supergroup album came out and feeling “hip” if you knew who Mother Love Bone were? Y’know looking back on grunge, the music, the style, the goofy media attention, the MTV/Kurt Loder/Rolling Stone effort to make Kurt Cobain a voice of a generation/martyr/ rock icon who you can’t say anything bad about - maybe I should have been buying Uncle Tupelo albums instead. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/7 "2003-09-26T12:35:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nitroglycerine \* > \*\*Sorry, but grunge, if it existed, existed long before Nevermind. Even if you’re going on the false presumption that grunge (which didn’t exist) started with Nirvana, Bleach was a lot more “grunge” than Nevermind. > > Grunge was just a mass marketing lable that lumped various NW punk, metal, indie and 60s influenced Blue Cheer style (like Mudhoney) bands together, even though they had nothing in common. > > Jon \*\* You may be right. What I said was my perception of grunge, but then, I was in Santa Fe until 1990, and they stopped keeping a calendar in 1967. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/8 "2003-09-26T14:34:54Z")
Somewhere around the house, I have a copy of a CD I picked up the summer I was in Seattle. Local bands. Sub Pop 500 was the title. Two years later, I looked at it again, and knew most bands by heart. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/9 "2003-09-26T14:40:41Z")
Good times, man. Good times. I look back on those days fondly. Whatever one might think of the media hype and oversaturation that came of it I think it was at least a good thing that briefly, as Rilchiam indicated, it brought real honest-to-goodness rock music back to the spotlight. Also, since I put up with several years of being outcast for listening to rock/metal instead of. . .whatever the hell MC Hammer’s first album was called, when “grunge” came through the media pipeline all of a sudden I was cool again. . .and _had been all along_! 😉 So while everyone else was burning their crappy tapes and trying to forget they ever existed, and began changing their appearances and behaviors, I just kept doing my thing. Not to say, of course, that _I_ was the _first_ or the only, I certainly wasn’t. In most ways I admit to just being along for the ride like most other people. I lived nowhere near Seattle, and had no chance of exposure to any of those bands. I _did_ hear Pearl Jam’s “Alive” on some compilation tape I had, and fell in love with it. This was before the media explosion, and AFAIK, well before I heard Nirvana on the radio (I remember precisely that moment, strangely enough). So after hearing “Alive” on that tape, I made an effort to seek out more of the same. I had an aunt who happened to be living in Seattle around that time, and she sent me all kinds of stuff: weird hats, posters, newspapers (?“The Rocket”?, I think), a tape or two I think (shhh, don’t tell RIAA). Then the wave came and while exciting, deep in my heart I knew I had become part of a fad. Most young people do, I suppose, at one time or another. I still firmly believe that this particular one, reflecting back on it, was at least a little different than most. There was a _LOT_ of good music there that will stand the test of time (and already has). Maybe because it was something real that was “discovered” and exploited, instead of being entirely fabricated by executives like many fads and trends. ---
**Author:** ![Kaspar\_Hauser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@Kaspar\_Hauser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaspar_Hauser)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/10 "2003-09-26T17:59:51Z")
You’re making me long for flannel shirts and black combat boots… and where did I put that Soundgarden t-shirt? ---
**Author:** ![vl\_mungo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc8723/32.png) [@vl\_mungo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vl_mungo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/11 "2003-09-26T19:33:53Z")
There’s a pretty good documentary about those years called [Hype!](http://imdb.com/title/tt0116589/) (the grunge fashion show is one of the highlights). In about 1986 there was a pretty good pre-grunge show here in Vancouver that featured **Green River** from Seattle and local heroes **Slow** … it still ranks as one of the best live shows I have ever seen. As far as the full on flowering of Grunge… I did like **Nirvana** and **Mudhoney** but it kind of pissed me off that some other great Seattle bands ( **The Fastbacks** , **The Young Fresh Fellows** , **Flop** and **Beat Happening** ), who didn’t play “grunge”, were largely ignored. Oh yeah, to touch upon something mentioned in previous posts (and in Hype!)… it was pretty strange when the clothing we wore day to day because of NW weather and culture suddenly became the clothing _everyone_ wore. Being looked upon as a bandwagon jumper because I was dressed the way I’d always dressed was kinda aggravating. Grunge did change music popular culture… before Nirvana became so big, you could get beaten up for being a “punk” afterwards, the people who used to beat you up were punching you in the head in the mosh pit. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/12 "2003-09-26T20:03:14Z")
I went from being a rap fiend in the mid-to-late 80’s to a grunge freak in the 90’s…one of the few to successfully make that transition. I seem to recall that Seal’s first album was a major stepping stone back to rock music for me. Here is the roadmap of my favorite bands…in approximate chronological order. Adam Ant Billy Idol Frankie Goes to Hollywood Tears For Fears Public Enemy Eric B. & Rakim 2 Live Crew A Tribe Called Quest Seal Pearl Jam The Verve Tool I sang for an Alt-Rock/Grunge/80’s cover band for 2 years…I was very grungy during that period. “Low End Theory” by A Tribe Called Quest was the last great rap album. The vast majority of rap is crap and has been since about 1994. The vast majority of rock is crap and has been since about 1996. I’m always in search of new, inspirational, rebellious music. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Griffin)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/13 "2003-09-26T20:20:12Z")
I thought Nevermind was released in 1991 not 1990… ---
**Author:** ![nitroglycerine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@nitroglycerine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nitroglycerine)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/14 "2003-09-26T20:30:23Z")
The Fastbacks ruled. If any of you guys hadn’t got it yet, the new Mudhoney (the greatest of all bands-who-got-labeled-as-grunge) album, Since We’ve Become Translucent, is a killer album…maybe their best ever. It’s got the usual blend of Blue Cheer/Sonics acid garage punk, mixed in with some Black Sabbath with a Muscle Shoals style horn section thrown in. If there was such a thing as grunge, this album would be the best grunge album ever 🙂 Jon ---
**Author:** ![percypercy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@percypercy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/percypercy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/15 "2003-09-27T00:10:39Z")
I can’t think of a band less suited to the grunge category than REM. They’re jangle pop, lovely lovely jangle pop. Or am I totally confused? -Lil ---
**Author:** ![bluecanary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bluecanary/32/3614_2.png) [@bluecanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluecanary)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/16 "2003-09-27T00:18:52Z")
**REM**? 😕 No, not grunge. Oh no. Oh no no no. ---
**Author:** ![Magickly\_Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magickly\_Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magickly_Delicious)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/17 "2003-09-27T00:21:17Z")
So I was a little young and a little far from Seattle to _truly_ get into grunge, but I liked it. And I still wear my boots. 🙂 _All I can say is that my life is pretty plain…_ ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/18 "2003-09-27T01:59:15Z")
EVERYONE wore flannels in high school. Everyone. What killed grunge? I like to blame the Spice Girls. Around the time they came out, grunge started to die. Damn you, Spice Girls! Damn you! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/19 "2003-09-27T04:58:47Z")
Did I tell you how grunge killed the best college radio stations in teh planet? no more jangle-rock or power-pop, it was a slow decay after that, now they are all playing Rage Rock :mad: ---
**Author:** ![cletus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@cletus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cletus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939/20 "2003-09-27T06:39:15Z")
Sometimes I STILL hear Nirvana played on the radio. How many current bands will be able to say that a decade from now? Ah, those were good times. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-ever-tell-you-about-grunge/203939.md?page=2)