Did I get ripped off (car question)

In My Humble Opinion
21

I agree about avoiding dealerships. Labor rates there are higher than at independent shops, which accounts for part of your bill.

$200 or so for a dealer-supplied alternator isn’t too bad. It was probably remanufactured (most replacement engine electrical components are nowadays) and even some dealer-supplied reman alternators can run up to and beyond $300.

Unfortunately, this may have been your best option. I know of independent shops which will not warranty their labor if they install aftermarket engine electrical parts. While these parts typically come with warranties of their own, some previously reliable remanufacturers have begun putting some pretty shoddy work out into the market. Cheap reman alternators and starters from AZ are notorious for failing within months of installation. (BTW, Bosch batteries from AZ are actually pretty good, if that’s the brand you bought.)

Also, it is true that the shop will need your old alt if they installed a reman. You can ask for it back, but expect to pay a “core charge” of around $50-$60. THat’s what they get charged for not returning the “core” to be remanufactured itself.

I’d say you might have paid $50 or so more than was really necessary, but as they say in the business: “It costs what it costs.” It’s worth as much as it means for you to have a working vehicle. Remember (at least from the independent mechanic POV), there’s rent to be paid, tools to be replaced, mechanics to pay, expensive ECU scanners (thousands in hardware and software) to buy, lifts to pay off, utility bills, haz. mat. disposal fees, extensive insurance fees, etc etc. You may think shops are raking in the dough, but many are barely treading water (not that this justifies ripping anyone off, but just to give you some perspective on why things cost what they do.)

But, yes, get an estimate first. Ask for one that states explicitly anything such as “Customer agrees that final total may exceed estimate by X%.” If they try to charge you more, in many states you have the right to demand your vehicle back. Failure to do so, as is my understanding, is considered “Theft by Withholding.” I know a mechanic that was arrested for such an offense, after a customer disputed work that was completed on his vehicle. You can bet that that mechanic got customers to sign a detailed repair authorization from that point on, so that there would be no dispute when time came to pay.

REmember: mechanics are like doctors. Find one BEFORE you’re sick and get a feel for his services.

I will step off my box now…

22

Ah, that’s the beauty of handy. Wooooooooooosh…right over his head. I would hope that after 10k posts, even the most basic sarcasm would be detected by now.

Folks, if you didn’t get the spark plug joke, refrain from offering any advice on car repairs in future threads. Really. Not “getting it” exposes you as someone who has no business offering advice.

23

I’ll remember you said that when your HT4100 lunches its head gasket. You are putting the GM coolant supplement tablets in the radiator, aren’t you?

BTW, the “HT” in “HT4100” stands for two things:

“Horrible Trash” and “Hello Towtruck.”

Zap

seriously Caddicted

24

Philster, if they don’t add :slight_smile: you don’t know if they are playing funny or just being plain stupid. One should take them seriously unless they have a :slight_smile: on their post. Rotating plugs is not out of the realm of possibilty at all.

An alternator for a GeoMetro, that tiny little american car, was quoted to me as $200! Thats from a nice store, a dealership would add quite a bit to it plus labor.

My advice stands, ask them what its going to cost & have them write it down on their form it has an area just for that. You can indeed ask for the core back for inspection.

25

Howyadoin,

If you think the alternator for a Metro is expensive, just wait 'til you have to replace the gerbil in a year or so!
Oh yeah… :slight_smile:
-Rav
P.S. Second that on the HT4100… a serious misadventure in all-aluminum engine construction. They’re not that bad a motor, as long as you never, ever, ever overheat. If you do, you might as well replace it, because it’ll warp itself into funny shapes. The sealant tabs are a must, and at something like $10, there’s no reason not to use them when you flush.

26

Because I did not see the mechanic install the new alternator I did ask for the old part, where he did mention that it would cost an additional $60 for the core charge. I didnt want to bring it up because I thought that he was trying to talk me out of it because it was never replaced. Understand, usually I stand right next to the car whenever it is being repaired, no matter how minor, so I can see what is being done.

I swear in this case I turned my back for a minute and the next thing I see my car is running again. I did not see what, if anything, was done, so I can only assume that the work was completed and the guy didnt just turn a screw and charge me 400 bucks. Alas, I think I will never know.

Regarding the ABS. If I ever need to make a short stop and there is any water on the street, the front end of my car will slide. I can hear what sounds like thump thump thump and the car jerks to a stop. Within the last four weeks I have tapped the back end of a Jeep making a short stop going @30-35 mph, and just the other night I made a hard turn right into a friends driveway and slid into the grass. I am not going fast and in no way was I being unsafe, its just the front end of the car will not stop in time. I just had the brakes replaced this spring so they should be alright. I keep thinking it must be the tires that I have. Perhaps there is not enough traction, but there is no thread or steel radials showing and it passes the penny test, so I just dont know.

Ideas?

27

Well, if you’re not going too fast, then the tires you have don’t provide enough traction for the speed you are going. However, IMO, if you hit a car in front of you and slid into the grass, then you are indeed going too fast for the conditions. Or perhaps you were following the jeep too closely. Since I wasn’t there I can’t comment for certain however. What you are describing sounds like the ABS is functioning as designed (from what information you did provide that is). New tires will make a difference, just not sure if they will make a big enough difference to keep you from hitting Jeeps. :smiley:

28

Whatya know, I own a '96 GA and I may be able to help you out with your braking problem. I just had the brakes totally redone (rotors, pads, drums, and shoes). I had the same problem with the front brakes locking. Turns out that I need to remove, clean, and relube the slides on my calipers. There are two of them per caliper. They look kind of like screws with a tube around them and are located on both sides of the cylinder. Hope that helps. For more help you can go to the Grand Am forum at http://www.GMPower.net.

29

Trust me, mechanics HATE that. It’s akin to standing right over the doctor’s shoulder while he performs surgery on your sister. It is also against some insurance and OSHA policies for “civilians” to be in the bay area. It depends.

A good mechanic will answer all your questions, show you the old parts, perhaps even point out a few things on your car while it’s on the lift. But almost every mechanic I have ever known would place “Hangs over my shoulder while I work on his car” at the top of their Things That Piss Me Off list. It gets you branded as an annoying customer and ensures that the mechanic will never do you any favors.

Many (independent) mechanics never charge their preferred customers full list price for parts and will gladly make sure they get their vehicle back ASAP. Customers which annoy the hell out of mechanics ALWAYS pay full list and usually end up at the bottom end of the priorities list.

[NOT TO SAY THAT YOU ARE CONSIDERED AN ANNOYING CUSTOMER! I CAN’T SPEAK FOR ALL MECHANICS AND ESPECIALLY NOT YOURS]

You best bet is fighting mechanic fraud is getting a Haynes or Chilton repair guide for your vehicle. Familiarize yourself with your car. If a mechanic says it takes 8 hours to replace your squeeby-squaby, ask him why. Then look up the repair in your Chilton guide. If he says he has to remove your exhaust manifold to get to your starter, get the evidence from your repair guide.

I’ll keep thinking about your ABS…

30

If you drive a car gently, you can wear out the tires and still have a fair amount of tread left. So, the penny test doesn’t always work. But if you brake hard enough to skid the tires it sounds like you drive enthusiastically enough so that your tire tread will wear out with the tire.
Before you buy new tires check your tire pressure. If the pressure is too low (or too high) that will drastically change the traction capabilities.
The correct tire pressure is printed on the side of your tire. There are so many different brands, models, types, and styles of tire out there you can’t generalize tire pressure. Each tire potentially has a different rubber composition. All of these things mean that the tire manufacturer knows what the proper inflation should be and they put that on the side-wall.
Thump-thump-thump would indicate that your ABS system is working. Just remember that there are several other things in the entire brake system that could be wrong.

31

I’ll restate what Philster said. If you honestly believe that “rotating the spark plugs” has anything to do with automotive maintenance or repair, you have no business offering advice on the subject.

I’m not even a car expert, and I know this much. Sheesh.

32

Can you explain this one to me? I’m lost as to how this would be possible, barring external circumstances such as leaks, broken belts, etc.

ooo… good one. I totally forgot about this since I check my once a month. I forget everyone isn’t as paranoid as I am.

I prefer to use the manufacturers rating for my car (printed on the door sticker). It’s been a while since I checked, but I believe the rating on the sidewall a maximum inflation. I just checked a few web sites and that seems to be the case. In general, that’s not going to give the type of handling that people are accustomed to.

33

You guys do know that if it was the alternator, certainly the red light on the dash would have been ON, eh?

34

Shit…my apologies. I thought that joke was so old, coupled with the fact that this place is riddled with some of the most intelligent people I’ve ever “met”, everybody would get it. I would apologize more, but my '64 Bug needs a radiator flush. :slight_smile:

35

Better? (y’see, old VW’s don’t have radiators…they’re air cooled, which makes perfect sense, 'cos I heard Hitler loved blow jobs.)

36

Speaking of VW beetles and cooling, I remember the stern warning that I got with mine, namely that if the generator light (that’s right generator, not alternator) came on pull over immediately and shut off the motor. The generator armature shaft also spun the cooling blower fan. A broken generator belt could lead to a fried motor.

I also agree with checking the alternator/battery with a voltmeter. Read the battery voltage with the motor off, it should read about 12 volts. Start the car and it should increase to about 14 volts and stabilize. That’s the voltage regulator working.

And don’t forget to have your lugnuts rotated at the same time that you do your sparkplugs.

I’m not a television even though I play one in my living room.

37

Not necessarily. That only tells if there is a low voltage problem with your vehicle. Handy, you cannot just rely on that light.

38

Moved to IMHO.
Sorry it took us so long! You can dock my pay…
Jill

39

I wish I knew what your Grand Am looked like under the hood, then I could get a pretty good idea of how long it would take to change the alternator.

I can change the alternator in either of our vehicles in under an hour because the alternators are easily accessible. Some newer cars are simply hell to work on like my nieces Jeep. A great deal of disassembly is required before you can even access the alternator.

I can see it taking several hours to change an alternator but can’t comment on the price of the part. I just replaced the alternator in our van and it cost $155.00 (Cdn) for a rebuilt with a five year warranty. Buying the parts from a supplier will be much cheaper than paying the dealer’s price in most cases.

40

A/CDelco p/n 321-1097 price list $254.75 Counter $175.46

Bosch p/n AL8713X list $234.50 Counter $158.34

These prices are from the iAutoparts web site.
I sell auto parts for a living.