# Did I insult Native Americans today? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 29, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958 "2011-09-29T01:10:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/21 "2011-09-29T03:59:24Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I don’t think that the quote is applicable to your legal situation on a gambling license. The nature of the quote is that your client doesn’t want someone to steal their land. This suggests that gambling licenses are not the proper subject of lawsuits, and you cite the Great Spirit as the legal authority. This may be persuasive in a political speech, but a legal argument is something different: it’s far more boring. My suggestion is to think long and hard about what your audience is going to want to consider for argument. In this case it isn’t Red Cloud’s eloquence, it is instead a quote from binding authority. I’m \*not \*a lawyer, but it seemed to me that it was less the OP’s intention to cite the Great Spirit as a legal authority, and more an intent to make a rhetorical point using the quote in question to make an interesting opening to a following legal argument. Perhaps I don’t understand how this kind of mock oral works? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/22 "2011-09-29T04:14:09Z")
Depending on the manner of his oral delivery, I can see how the OP’s quote might possibly come off as smarmy or patronizing. But on the page (or the computer screen) I don’t see how it could necessarily be construed as offensive just in and of itself. BTW, Qin Shi Huangdi is a Korean American? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/23 "2011-09-29T04:21:13Z")
Yes, despite the apparent Old French roots of his name. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/24 "2011-09-29T04:21:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t think your statement is clearly offensive… > …but I do have _reservations_ about it! > > b’DOOM _kssh_ Yeah, I’d’ve given him such a _wampum_ myself. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/25 "2011-09-29T04:21:22Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > BTW, Qin Shi Huangdi is a Korean American? Yes, and his original username was **Curtis LeMay**. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/26 "2011-09-29T04:43:19Z")
Meh, some people will be offended by anything. Doesn’t mean they’re right. And as to “YOU DON’T HAVE THE RIGHT!”, as a law student, I’m sure you could point exactly where she is wrong and that you do, in fact, have the right to say what you did. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/27 "2011-09-29T04:53:08Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I’m \*not \*a lawyer, but it seemed to me that it was less the OP’s intention to cite the Great Spirit as a legal authority, and more an intent to make a rhetorical point using the quote in question to make an interesting opening to a following legal argument. Perhaps I don’t understand how this kind of mock oral works? Rhetorical points are just that. It is not the same thing as a legal point. It is a good rhetorical point. I’ll give it that. But it is beside the point legally. A non-sequitar. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/28 "2011-09-29T05:03:37Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Rhetorical points are just that. It is not the same thing as a legal point. It is a good rhetorical point. I’ll give it that. But it is beside the point legally. A non-sequitar. Sure, I wouldn’t expect the OP to have got marked up for the point. But it’s not a non-sequitur; it’s apropos. Or at least the OP considers it to be based on their understanding of the quote’s context. I can’t speak to a legal argument, but i’ve certainly written essays and given oral arguments for a topic, and if nothing else a handy rhetorical point at the start of a presentation is helpful in attracting the interest of a professor who’ll likely be sitting through/reading a number of boring equivalents that day, even though you don’t get bonus points directly. [QUOTE=Isamu] And as to “YOU DON’T HAVE THE RIGHT!”, as a law student, I’m sure you could point exactly where she is wrong and that you do, in fact, have the right to say what you did. [/QUOTE] I was about to suggest that the OP’s classmate might have been concerned with the _moral_ or \*ethical \*rights to say such things; but then I remembered they’re law students. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/29 "2011-09-29T05:19:17Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Rhetorical points are just that. It is not the same thing as a legal point. It is a good rhetorical point. I’ll give it that. But it is beside the point legally. A non-sequitar. There’s room for a certain amount of rhetorical flair in delivering legal argument, particularly oral argument, but I’ve been known to use it in briefs as well. Comes down to individual style, and what the lawyer is comfortable with using. You don’t want to overdo it, of course, but it can be effective if you pick your spots. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/30 "2011-09-29T05:36:12Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Yes, and his original username was **Curtis LeMay**. No wonder he’s such a feisty little guy. Also no wonder he may have been brought up to have no love lost for the Japanese. If a Jewish person has some bias against the Germans you might want to cut him a bit of slack, you know? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/31 "2011-09-29T05:50:45Z")
I’m not bothered by it but I’m not surprised other people would get their panties in a twist over it. > [@Koxinga](#): > > No wonder he’s such a feisty little guy. Also no wonder he may have been brought up to have no love lost for the Japanese. If a Jewish person has some bias against the Germans you might want to cut him a bit of slack, you know? No. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/32 "2011-09-29T06:06:07Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Imagine a Korean soda pop commercial showing the Challenger disaster with the phrase “bursting with flavor.” Am I the only one who laughed? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/33 "2011-09-29T06:17:07Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > She was actually mad herself saying that I had NO RIGHT to use the words of a Native American Chief when I do not come from that culture or understand the meaning of the words. What, I’m not allowed to quote The Bard now? Nobody is allowed to quote the Bible? Wait… that second one might actually be a good idea… ETA: Are we only allowed to [quote] posters from our own corner of the planet now? 😛 Hell, those sentences may even be originally in English (I’m not bothering to try and search), in which case how are you supposed to “not understand the meaning”, any more than you wouldn’t understand that of anybody else speaking your own language? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/34 "2011-09-29T06:19:00Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Am I the only one who laughed? Nope! ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/35 "2011-09-29T06:20:01Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Imagine if some lawyer in a tax evasion trial in China used an image of the Kennedy assassination or a clip of the planes crashing in to the twin towers to make some trivial point. Imagine a Korean soda pop commercial showing the Challenger disaster with the phrase “bursting with flavor.” A bit offensive, huh? That’s the kind of ground you are starting to tread on. Come now, Korean advertisers would never be so [crass](http://adage.com/article/news/kia-backpedals-amid-int-l-furor-diana-spot-south-korean-carmaker-offers-formal-regrets-car-chase-ad/65900/), would they? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/36 "2011-09-29T08:09:50Z")
Your classmate, IMO, is an idiot. Your professor was warning you to be careful of idiots like her. Personally, I would have been tempted to ask her what gave her the right to be offended on the Native Americans’ behalf. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/37 "2011-09-29T08:17:59Z")
I’m picturing Kevin Costner reprising his role in “JFK” to do a Korean chewing gum commercial: [Points at slo-mo movie screen] “Back . . . and to the left . . . and BURSTING WITH FLAVOR!” ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/38 "2011-09-29T08:43:19Z")
Meh, I think people are overanalysing. I think the prof just meant that indian rights are a sensitive issue, and the quote sounds fairly bellicose (especially if you know Red Cloud fought a war against the US to keep his small spot of land). Some of the sillier judges (and there are some very silly judges) might take it as sounding vaguely threatening. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/39 "2011-09-29T09:42:58Z")
Next time open with a smallpox joke. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958/40 "2011-09-29T10:14:32Z")
Somebody get the hook… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-insult-native-americans-today/597958.md?page=3)