# Did I make up this Douglas Hofstadter quote? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 28, 2014, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-make-up-this-douglas-hofstadter-quote/684752 "2014-03-28T10:01:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-make-up-this-douglas-hofstadter-quote/684752/1 "2014-03-28T10:01:41Z")
There’s a quote by Douglas M. Hofstadter, author of _Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid_, that’s been on my mind lately. The quote, such as I remember it, is: [QUOTE=Hofstadter(?)] A self is a pattern perceived by a self. This may be circular, but it is not vicious. [/QUOTE] I’m not entirely certain of the wording of the second sentence, but the first one seems perfectly clear to me; yet, googling for it, the only hit I get is [an old thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13565889#post13565889) on these boards, where I use it and attribute it to Hofstadter (and it’s certainly a quite Hofstadterian thing to say). So, is there a source for this quote other than myself? Did I make it up out of the whole cloth, or is there something that roughly corresponds to it and was mangled by memory? I seem to have a vague memory of reading it online in some article, i.e. not in GEB; but I don’t have a searchable copy right now to check. Oh, maybe it was in Dennett’s _Consciousness Explained_? (Can one use google books to search for a quotation inside a specific book?) Thanks in advance! Mods, if this fits better in Cafe Society, I’ll appreciate having it moved. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-make-up-this-douglas-hofstadter-quote/684752/2 "2014-03-28T10:19:47Z")
I found this:\* “What is a self, and how can a self come out of stuff that is as selfless as a stone or a puddle?”\* and this: _“In the end, we self-perceiving, self-inventing, locked-in mirages are little miracles of self-reference.”_ but I guess this is the one:\* “Mind is a pattern perceived by a mind. This is perhaps circular, but it is neither vicious nor paradoxical.”\* ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-make-up-this-douglas-hofstadter-quote/684752/3 "2014-03-28T11:42:37Z")
And you nailed it in one! Strange that I didn’t think to try that variation. Thanks a lot. If I may ask, how did you find it? ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-make-up-this-douglas-hofstadter-quote/684752/4 "2014-03-29T02:39:39Z")
We are the eggmen. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-make-up-this-douglas-hofstadter-quote/684752/5 "2014-03-29T02:49:08Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > And you nailed it in one! Strange that I didn’t think to try that variation. Thanks a lot. If I may ask, how did you find it? I’m not **bob++** , but I found that last quote searching for the keywords: Douglas Hofstadter vicious circular. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-make-up-this-douglas-hofstadter-quote/684752/6 "2014-03-29T08:03:48Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not **bob++** , but I found that last quote searching for the keywords: Douglas Hofstadter vicious circular. Doing that, I indeed find it quoted in _Consciousness Explained_. So it seems that my memory isn’t completely gone… ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-make-up-this-douglas-hofstadter-quote/684752/7 "2014-03-29T14:19:19Z")
That would be from “The Mind’s Eye”. See also his later musings in “I am a Strange Loop”.