# Did I mention I hate PayPal? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 26, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138 "2004-04-26T19:25:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/1 "2004-04-26T19:25:15Z")
After all the people I’ve heard bashing PayPal, and thinking to myself, “Hmmm…they’re not so bad”, I now have to say I concur. I tried to buy something 2 days ago, and got a message saying “The seller will not accept payment without a confirmed address”, followed by a prompt to enter my credit card info. O.K., I don’t like it, but if that’s what I have to do, fine. It very clearly says on the PayPal website: “ **This information will only be used to verify your address. Your card will not be charged.** ” All righty then - I put in my credit card info. Then it asked for that 3-digit code on the back, which seems odd considering that they’re not going to charge anything on the card. But I go ahead and put the code in. THEN, and I kid you not, it says, “Your credit card will be charged $1.95” (or some similar amount, I can’t recall exactly). Huh? “Your card will not be charged.” “Your card will be charged.” Remember that old song on Sesame Street? “One of these things is not like the other…” So after a thoroughly unsatisfying attempt to email PayPal, and getting an automated response, I called them, and after an extremely long time on hold and a mind-numbingly stupid automated menu that does not contain the option I need, I finally got a real person, who gives the ridiculous explanation that the “normal” address confirmation process didn’t work, so it defaulted to a higher security process where I supposedly have to pay them money, then wait 'til my credit card statement comes out, and confirm that the payment came out on my statement. I explained that I need to buy the item now, not next month when I get my credit card bill, and he said that’s the only way to do it. Geez, no wonder half the eBay auctions say they REFUSE to use PayPal. ---
**Author:** ![robgruver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@robgruver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robgruver)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/2 "2004-04-26T19:34:24Z")
As a powerseller on eBay, I have had my fair share of problems with Paypal. From non-payment of over $1,000, to ringing up things on my credit card that shouldn’t be there. Its been a hassle to deal with it. I just don’t know what else to use, since the vast majority of people that buy my products (Magic: the Gathering cards, and comic books) generally want to use Paypal. I would say something along the lines of 85% or so. I have looked into getting a Merchant Account at a bank and using my website as a payment option, but that costs quite a bit of money (that I don’t have) to get started. I will say though, they have gotten better since eBay bought them last year. Before then, it was hit or miss. Do I hate Paypal? Nah, not really, but I can totally see the OP’s point. Very frustrating. ---
**Author:** ![tanookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/48db29/32.png) [@tanookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanookie)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/3 "2004-04-26T21:42:54Z")
I’ve not had the horrible paypal issues many people have but I don’t use it all that often… of course I have probably jinxed myself. I sympathize with you about being stuck in menu limbo where none of the choices fit and pressing 0 does not get you a human. _grrr_ **robgruver** have you tried [propay](https://epay.propay.com/index.html)? I just started using that to accept credit cards for my creative memories stuff and they seem pretty good so far and have a similar fee structure to paypal. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/4 "2004-04-27T04:32:46Z")
I’m about to say goodby to PayPal as a buyer because I’ve used up my 2000 limit and I don’t want to give them my checking account information. They claim on their site that it is 100% safe but that doesn’t mean squat to me. You do not have the same security that a credit card gives you. If Pay Pal decides to charge your checking account there is nothing stopping them. You’ve deliberately given them your information. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/5 "2004-04-27T04:44:36Z")
Moving this to The Pit. Your card will be charged $1.99 for this move. Thank you for using PayPal. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/6 "2004-04-27T05:13:37Z")
I’ve only bought 1 thing with it, and donated to a half-dozen places, and I’m still waiting for the thing that drives me to post on [paypalsucks.com](http://paypalsucks.com) (or whatever), but for now it’s okay… I did that registration thing (they want to be sure the person with the card == the person getting the statement), and they charged me some small amount on my CC as “Paypal 123456”, but after I typed in that code to get registered, I got the same amount back as a deduction from the next payment I made with Paypal. Of course I can see my statement online, so I only had to wait 2 days or so… My mom was just complaining about Paypal today (her office had to buy some software from a guy who only took Paypal). I wonder if she was having the same experience. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/7 "2004-04-27T05:39:38Z")
I used them about ten times with no problem. Then I paid for an item I didn’t receive. After going through the whole investigation they ‘decided in my favor’ (heh no kidding the person had been kicked off of ebay even before I started the complaint process) but so sorry they couldn’t return my funds. Big deal. I had a chat with my credit card company and reversed the charges which is what I felt like doing to begin with I just wanted to give PayPal a chance to fix things. So then paypal locks my account down for reversing the charges. Sheesh. I emailed them telling them that that’s supposed to be the next step in the process according to ebay but no luck so I guess I won’t be buying through PayPal anymore. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/8 "2004-04-27T08:21:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If Pay Pal decides to charge your checking account there is nothing stopping them. . Actually there is a way around it. Marry someone that works at the bank you use. I’ve saved myself about $200 in fradulent charges. And yeah, PayPal is no longer used in this house. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/9 "2004-04-27T12:11:57Z")
Hey, **blowero** ya know what really pissed me off? (Well, besides the vast numbre of customer complaints we got about PayPal before we said, “fuck it!” and got a real e-commerce gateway.) Your card is charged $1.95 s that it has a “confirmation code”, and they say they will refund you that $1.95 once you “confirm your card” using that “code.” Because I had to pay for something _now_ and couldn’t wait a month, I said “fuck it” and closed the PayPal account altogether. They didn’t refund the $1.95. I never used the confirmation code, so they never credited me. And there’s nothing I can do about it because the PayPal account doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/10 "2004-04-27T12:21:05Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > Then I paid for an item I didn’t receive. After going through the whole investigation they ‘decided in my favor’ (heh no kidding the person had been kicked off of ebay even before I started the complaint process) but so sorry they couldn’t return my funds. I don’t get it. You got stiffed by an eBay seller, and somehow it’s PayPal’s fault? Why should they eat the loss everytime you decide to do business with a deadbeat? They are a middleman, nothing more. I don’t see why you should expect them to guarantee satisfaction in all your purchases. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/11 "2004-04-27T14:43:01Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > I don’t get it. You got stiffed by an eBay seller, and somehow it’s PayPal’s fault? I think the complaint was with the situation in paragraph 3 – when the CC company reversed the charges, Paypal locked him out. Hey, fine, they are a private business – but private businesses who sanction a customer for exercising _a legal right_ don’t get raves. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/12 "2004-04-27T17:12:16Z")
Fear Itself, Well they make such a big deal about secure and safe transactions. However they do say they can’t guarantee refunds. That’s fine. But they also say contact your credit card company (both ebay recommends this and paypal) so why are they punishing me for following their guidelines? It reminds me of insurance companies that will let you pay insurance for 20 yrs then cancel you the first time you file a claim. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/13 "2004-04-27T18:30:12Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > But they also say contact your credit card company (both ebay recommends this and paypal) so why are they punishing me for following their guidelines? Because your action costs them money. They accepted your credit card payment in good faith, and made the payment to the seller as agreed upon. If you reverse your payment, PayPal is left holding the bag. Does this sound fair? In all likelyhood, there was a temporary hold on your account until they could try to collect the funds in question from the seller. If they can satisfy the debt that way, your account will be restored at no charge to you. It’s all in the [User’s Agreement](https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/ua-outside) that you entered into when you opened your account: > [@](#): > > **Remedies and PayPal’s Right to Collect From You.** > > Without limiting other remedies, we may update inaccurate or incorrect information you provide to us, contact you by means other than electronically, immediately warn our community of your actions, **place a hold on funds in your account** , limit funding sources and payments, limit access to an account and any or all of the account’s functions (including but not limited to the ability to send money or making withdrawals from an the account), limit withdrawals, \*\*indefinitely suspend or close your account \*\* and refuse to provide our Services to you if: (a) you breach this Agreement or the documents it incorporates by reference; (b) we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us; (c) we believe that your account or activities pose a significant credit or fraud risk to us; **(d) we believe that your actions may cause financial loss or legal liability for you, our users or us**; or (e) your use of your PayPal account is deemed by PayPal, Visa, MasterCard, American Express or Discover to constitute abuse of the credit card system or a violation of credit card rules, including (without limitation), using the PayPal system to test credit card behaviors. > > Even if they have been recorded as completed in the Recent Activity or History Transaction Log of your PayPal account, transactions are not considered completed until the funds have been charged to the customer’s funding source (for payments) or posted to the customer’s bank account (for withdrawals). In addition, PayPal reserves the right to hold funds beyond the normal distribution periods for transactions it deems suspicious or for accounts conducting high transaction volumes to ensure integrity of the funds. > > If we close your account, we will provide you notice and pay you all of the unrestricted funds held in your PayPal account. Additionally, to secure your performance of this Agreement, you grant to PayPal a lien on and security interest in your account. In addition, you acknowledge that PayPal may setoff against any accounts you own for any obligation you owe PayPal at any time and for any reason allowed by law. > > These obligations include both secured and unsecured debts and debts you owe individually or together with someone else. PayPal may consider this Agreement as your consent to PayPal’s asserting its security interest or exercising its right of setoff should any law require your consent. The rights described in this section are in addition to and apart from any other rights. You may not like the terms, and you are free to cease doing business with PayPal, but you call hardly call it unfair. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/14 "2004-04-27T19:07:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Moving this to The Pit. > Your card will be charged $1.99 for this move. > Thank you for using PayPal. I want a refund.😉 Seriously, though - I’m curious as to why you moved my thread. Isn’t my OP a “frank exchange of views on a less-than-cosmic topic”? I always assumed that the BBQ Pit being the place to “flame” meant if you’re flaming _another member_. Does flaming apply to _any_ criticism of _any_ company or public entity? If I say I hate The Spice Girls, does that constitute flaming? Or was there another reason that I’m just missing? Was my opinion not humble enough? 😃 Just curious… ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/15 "2004-04-27T23:56:13Z")
> [@](#): > > PayPal is left holding the bag This is the fault of the seller not the buyer. Cancel their account by all means. They know their own business model and knew the risks. It’s hardly a secure safe way of buying things online if they can’t collect a refund. > [@](#): > > In all likelyhood, there was a temporary hold on your account until they could try to collect the funds in question from the seller. If they can satisfy the debt that way, your account will be restored at no charge to you. It’s all in the User’s Agreement that you entered into when you opened your account: Nope the case was closed with no funds returned. They closed it after I disputed the credit card charge. > [@](#): > > (d) we believe that your actions may cause financial loss or legal liability for you, our users or us which again refers to the seller not me. S/he stole money. I went through their complaint process. At the end of which it said to contact my credit card company. Which I did. I FOLLOWED THEIR RULES and was punished for it. > [@](#): > > You may not like the terms, and you are free to cease doing business with PayPal, but you call hardly call it unfair. Heh I’m not just ‘free’ to not do business my account is locked. They threw me out when I did step by step what they asked of me. If I had disputed with the credit card without using their process I could see them being upset. But I was told 1. Try to contact the seller. Done 2. Open a case. Done 3. Wait for the case to be closed by paypal. Done 4. In case funds can’t be returned contact my credit card company. Done. Then apparently they cancel your account. I didn’t know that was the next step. I think calling that unfair is totally accurate. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/16 "2004-04-28T07:03:50Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > 1. Try to contact the seller. Done > 2. Open a case. Done > 3. Wait for the case to be closed by paypal. Done > 4. In case funds can’t be returned contact my credit card company. Done. 1. Bend over and grab your ankles. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/17 "2004-04-28T10:55:27Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I want a refund.😉 > > Seriously, though - I’m curious as to why you moved my thread. Isn’t my OP a “frank exchange of views on a less-than-cosmic topic”? I always assumed that the BBQ Pit being the place to “flame” meant if you’re flaming _another member_. Does flaming apply to _any_ criticism of _any_ company or public entity? If I say I hate The Spice Girls, does that constitute flaming? Or was there another reason that I’m just missing? Was my opinion not humble enough? 😃 > > Just curious… The Pit is for flaming just about anyone or anything. We DON’T allow people to flame spouses/lovers when both post on the message board (we feel that this is better solved in a nonpublic area). We also don’t allow people to drag stuff from chat or another message board into the Pit. If you have a problem with the way another message board is run, you should complain about it ON THAT MESSAGE BOARD. If you have a problem with someone in chat, you should keep it in chat. Other than that, there’s lots of people, circumstances, businesses, etc. that you can flame to your heart’s content. PayPal is certainly worthy of flaming. Lynn For the Straight Dope ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-mention-i-hate-paypal/242138/18 "2004-04-28T17:26:10Z")
> [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > The Pit is for flaming just about anyone or anything. We DON’T allow people to flame spouses/lovers when both post on the message board (we feel that this is better solved in a nonpublic area). We also don’t allow people to drag stuff from chat or another message board into the Pit. If you have a problem with the way another message board is run, you should complain about it ON THAT MESSAGE BOARD. If you have a problem with someone in chat, you should keep it in chat. > > Other than that, there’s lots of people, circumstances, businesses, etc. that you can flame to your heart’s content. PayPal is certainly worthy of flaming. > > Lynn > For the Straight Dope Thanks, Lynn. I remember past instances where I and others had posted “don’t you hate that…” kind of stuff in The Pit, and gotten lots of snarky responses to the effect of “That’s supposed to go in IMHO.” Obviously those folks didn’t know what they were talking about.