# Did I miss something here? Mod rant in The Game Room **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 30, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969 "2014-09-30T13:43:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/61 "2014-10-01T07:23:09Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > And furthermore, like I said above, you are also free to just tag game threads from here on out–if that’s what you want–and not tag anything else. You keep repeating this. How do you propose that I, someone who does not start every thread in the game room, do this? Are you going to give me moderator powers to change the titles of thread games to tag them? Because I volunteer to do that. I would like to point at that this discussion is civil, and while I see a lock in this thread’s future because it’s quite frankly a difficult situation for you to explain, I think it would be a poor step for the relations on this board between the users and administration to use that tactic to stifle discussion on this matter. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/62 "2014-10-01T07:28:46Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > We thought everything needed to be labeled so people could find everything. Didn’t want to slight anybody neither. I don’t know where you got that idea, but that’s just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/63 "2014-10-01T07:32:54Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > You keep repeating this. How do you propose that I, someone who does not start every thread in the game room, do this? I don’t propose that you, alone, do it at all. Obviously you only have the power to tag any threads, in there, that you make yourself. But if others think it’s a bad idea, as you certainly seem to, then they won’t do it either. But if some DO find it helpful, then they may continue to do it. If that’s the case, you cannot say that it’s unhelpful to everyone, then. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/64 "2014-10-01T07:38:46Z")
You’re not understanding. The superior solution is to NOT label discussion threads. Dexter’s solution of labeling only thread games is superior. But here you are, posting a sticky thread in the game room encouraging everyone to label every thread. And when I challenge you with an argument for a better system, you simply say “well, then don’t label your threads” You have essentially set up a contradiction where people who attempt to voluntarily implement the better solution (not labeling discussion threads) are instead basically hastening the demise of the very system you just suggested for labeling every thread. This system is designed to collapse because the optimal choice for discussion threads is non-participation. You are designing this from the start to fail so that you can then say “oh look, doesn’t look like your idea worked! tough luck!” You have a solution that actually did improve things. It took less work to implement, and actually did more good. It also does not have the inherent contradiction in it where you’re simultaneously encouraging users to label everything, and also to not label anything in the same breath. You are not working in good faith to either legitimately discuss the benefits and drawbacks of the options available to us, or to work with the users of this board on something that better this board, or to communicate your reasons for doing it this way. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/65 "2014-10-01T07:50:47Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > You’re not understanding. The superior solution is to NOT label discussion threads. Then don’t do it. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Dexter’s solution of labeling only thread games is superior. But here you are, posting a sticky thread in the game room encouraging everyone to label every thread. Not true. I state, pretty clearly in it, that it’s up to the posters whether they want to do it and to fashion when and where to do it themselves. So, again, if people agree that how Dex had it before is what’s best…by all means, they can do it just with game threads from now on and, over time–probably a shorter time than you may think–only the game threads will be tagged. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/66 "2014-10-01T07:53:16Z")
Then why did you just post a sticky thread in the game room instructing people to ignore Dex’s solution to the problem? Did you post that thread in the hopes that people would ignore your advice and that you would somehow catalyze a superior solution through non-compliance? Edit: Posted a sticky to the game room AND changed all the thread titles currently in the game room showing people have you want it done. You are suggesting what people should do and even get the ball rolling yourself by editing the threads all over the game room, and then saying that they should ignore your suggestion. This is, at best, a solution doomed to failure. Why is it that none of the moderators are willing to say why the current suggested solution is superior to Dexter’s solution that was actually working well for a few days and did indeed improve the boards? You would rather make a dozen posts saying “just ignore my sticky then” rather than have a genuine discussion about the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/67 "2014-10-01T07:55:37Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Then why did you just post a sticky thread in the game room instructing people to ignore Dex’s solution to the problem? Where have I or any other staff member done this? Please provide a link. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/68 "2014-10-01T08:01:52Z")
Is there anyone on staff that’s willing to come to this thread and have a frank, honest, good-faith discussion about this issue? Someone went in today and changed all the game room threads to a new labeling system. You then followed up by making a sticky post suggesting how people should format their posts to continue this. You are, by deed (relabeling the thread titles) and by words (telling people how you suggest they format their titles) suggesting people implement that solution. The solution you propose, which is reflected in the current state of game room threads, is inferior, and incompatible with, the previous solution implemented by Dexter. [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=17) are your [links.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=735959) The fact that the board’s users participating in this thread are attempting constructive criticism, and the representatives of the board’s administration are attempt obfuscation and avoiding substantive discussion, instead resorting to transparent rhetorical tricks to avoid discussion, indicates that one side is making a good faith effort to improve this board. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/69 "2014-10-01T08:12:28Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The solution you propose, which is reflected in the current state of game room threads, is inferior, and incompatible with, the previous solution implemented by Dexter. The solution that was proposed was that the game threads can be tagged and modified how regular posters of that forum see fit…which includes how Dex had it. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=17) are your [links.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=735959) Your question was “Then why did you just post a sticky thread in the game room instructing people to ignore Dex’s solution to the problem?” I asked for you a link to where that happened and you link to that? That sticky doesn’t say anything remotely close to instructing people to ignore Dex’s solution. What it does say, however, is things like: > [@](#): > > A few things about this from here on: > > 1. Posters will be expected to keep up with this on their own **if they want to/think it’s a good idea, _but it’s not required_**. and > [@](#): > > …it’s mostly up to you all to continue it now **if you see fit**. …which is sort of the opposite of what you’re claiming it says. [bolding and italics mine] ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/70 "2014-10-01T08:13:13Z")
I can completely see why **Senorbeef** is getting frustrated here, this whole situation is like some alternate bizarro world where the problem is obvious, the solution is obvious, and yet the mods seem to be in a competition to be as obtuse as possible. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/71 "2014-10-01T08:25:24Z")
1. It’s a work in progress. We said that from the jump. 2. It’s an experiment and experiments are, well, experimental. That means you figure out what works for the largest number and implement it as best you can. It also means it’s not perfect. Yet. 3. Your participation is not mandatory. 4. Calm down, get a grip. We’ll figure it out to make it as good as we can for everybody. Not instantly, but as soon and as best we can. 5. You’ve also proven to us that no good deed goes unpunished. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/72 "2014-10-01T08:36:27Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > 1. You’ve also proven to us that no good deed goes unpunished. 😃 Just like **Dex** tried to do a good deed? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/73 "2014-10-01T08:39:57Z")
I think Dexter proved that last item before these guys did 😉 ETA : Damnit. So much for my attempts at wit. Ninja’d ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/74 "2014-10-01T08:43:07Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > The solution that was proposed was that the game threads can be tagged and modified how regular posters of that forum see fit…which includes how Dex had it. Dex’s solution worked because it was consistent. If a thread had a prefix that said GAME, then you could ignore it and move onto the next line. It is mutually incompatible with your current proposal for a labeling system. You went through and changed every title on the front page of the game room, showing people how you suggested they handle it. You then followed this up by telling them to do it your way. And then, now, you say, oh right, ignore me, and use this mutually incompatible labeling system. If some fraction of people follow your suggested format, and others follow dex’s superior solution, the whole thing collapses because they’re mutually incompatible, and at that point you can’t use the prefix for its intended purpose. It’s a system designed to collapse. Even if everyone from here on out decided to ignore you - and why are you encouraging them to just ignore mod posting etiquette stickies? then we’d still have the same threads that are currently labeled as per your suggested format until they die, which can potentially be months or years down the road if they’re discussions with longevity. Even so, if the purpose of labeling threads is for people to be able to make a quick scan for things that interest them, having two of the labels to separate the types of content that cry out for the greatest degree of distinguishing be labeled as “GAME” vs “[GAME]” is so obviously a poor choice that I have no idea how that not only occurred to someone as a good idea, but that it actually stood up for discussion, and was decided that it should replace Dex’s vastly superior solution. > [@](#): > > Your question was “Then why did you just post a sticky thread in the game room instructing people to ignore Dex’s solution to the problem?” > > I asked for you a link to where that happened and you link to that? That sticky doesn’t say anything remotely close to instructing people to ignore Dex’s solution. You changed 30+ threads in the game room and then told people how you suggested they label their own posts in a similar way. And your method is mutually incompatible with what makes Dex’s original change useful. So yes, the ENTIRE POINT OF YOUR STICKY is to suggest to people to ignore Dex’s solution. You can’t change 30 thread titles, ask people to do the same with their thread titles, and then claim “oh, where are you getting this? I never thought people should do what I’m saying and doing and telling them to do” > [@TubaDiva](#): > > 1. You’ve also proven to us that no good deed goes unpunished. 😃 You’re now doing exactly what I said you’d do. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > And two, there’s clearly a lot of mod resentment towards those of us who have the audacity to try to improve the boards by calmly and in a civil tone suggest changes to the board for the betterment of everyone, and so I suspect there could be a childish “OH FINE HERE, YOU WANT A SOLUTION? TAKE YOUR SOLUTION”, giving us a crappy solution, and then when we point out how crappy this solution is, we get “OH WE TRY TO HELP YOU AND YOU COMPLAIN, YOU’RE ALL JUST A BUNCH OF WHINERS” You did not do a good deed. CK Dexter Haven did a good deed. His good deed was an embarrassment to you because it shined a spotlight on a problem that you claimed was a non-problem. So you attempted to hide that spotlight by cluttering up his solution. Where before you could see the labels on thread games showing a stark contrast that detailed just how they were choking the game room, now everything is such a mess that it’s not as immediately apparent. I have, in very police and civil terms, asked you to please explain why the current state of affairs is a superior solution to the previous one. Neither have you have attempted to make a good-faith answer to that question, instead obfuscating, giving non-answers, ignoring questions, and even having the gall to play the martyr by suggesting you’re being criticized for a good deed. I think this is plainly apparent to everyone reading this thread. I would like to ask that on behalf of the users of this board - and thus far, everyone who’s chimed in on this thread has agreed with me - are you willing to have a constructive discussion about the policy you’re currently experimenting with? Can we discussion the pros, cons, and potential alternatives? Are you able to see that your answers so far appear to be obfuscation and essentially attempts at stifling the discussion? I would like to have a more productive discourse in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/75 "2014-10-01T09:21:37Z")
NM Posted in here what I meant to send in a PM. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/76 "2014-10-01T10:18:29Z")
As one who is at least partially responsible for this entire discussion, I feel the need to weigh in. I loathe the somewhat regular discussions that appear on this forum that take small issues and turn them into moderator bashing discussions for the sake of, well, bashing moderators. This is not one of those discussions. This is a real issue. **SenorBeef** has taken the baton and run with it faster and more articulately than I could ever hope to, but it must be said that he/she is acting rationally while the administration of this site is acting like the 9/11 truthers or creationists. Just deal with it. Quit trying to obfuscate a poor decision. It’s too transparent. Frankly, I’m a little embarrassed for you guys. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/77 "2014-10-01T10:42:50Z")
FWIW, I fully support the Sr. Beef proposal to only tag thread games and not tag discussion threads about sports, games, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/78 "2014-10-01T10:53:05Z")
[Show **Dex** some love.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=735961) Label your game threads; don’t label anything else. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/79 "2014-10-01T11:14:22Z")
I certainly don’t think that there’s a conspiracy among the mods to hide the problem with the game threads, but I do have to point out that \*\*SenorBeef \*\*is absolutely correct that the system currently being tried in the Game Room – labeling every thread – is objectively terrible. I understand it’s an experiment, but it’s not, like, _completely unheard of_ for bad ideas to become institutionalized and persistent, so I’d consider it a blessing if the system was aggressively rolled back. The sooner the better. Labeling just the game threads was and is a helpful step. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969/80 "2014-10-01T11:28:02Z")
The problem with labeling everything is that you cannot simply scan for threads based on label vs no label. You have to read and decode (sport, discussions about games, games) each thread. If the problem was needing an easy way to separate game threads from everything else, the solution should be easily scannable by eye. Too much information can be as muddling and too little information. Barring the creation of a sub forum, I think \*\*Dex’s \*\*solution was the easiest and most elegant: only label the game threads. I believe the sticky suggesting the labeling etiquette should reflect that original idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-here-mod-rant-in-the-game-room/699969.md?page=5)