# Did I miss something. (sorta-kinda-not really math related) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 28, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544 "2009-07-28T13:05:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/1 "2009-07-28T13:05:41Z")
In the last year I have become aware that people in the UK call Mathematics, **Maths**. At first, I thought it was a joke or something. I was watching a spoof documentary on youtube set in england about the british school system ( or something.) Can’t remember. Not important. My entire life, here in the states, it has been (and should be) **Math**. Maths just seems WRONG. It is plural. Did I miss something vital in my youth. Is\*\* Maths\*\*, which is so VERY wrong, actually the correct way to say you are studying this specific subject? HELP ME OBI WAN!!! ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/2 "2009-07-28T13:32:40Z")
In New Zealand and Australia, it is also called Maths. ---
**Author:** ![ColonelDax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@ColonelDax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColonelDax)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/3 "2009-07-28T13:44:21Z")
Not only do they speak of maths instead of math, they also talk about sport rather than sports. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/4 "2009-07-28T13:54:22Z")
Would you abbreviate “statistics” as “stat” or “stats”? And, if “stats”, why not “maths”? (I’m an Australian who has spent a lot of his life in the UK and in the US, and I find “math” odd.) ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/5 "2009-07-28T14:27:31Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Would you abbreviate “statistics” as “stat” or “stats”? And, if “stats”, why not “maths”? > > (I’m an Australian who has spent a lot of his life in the UK and in the US, and I find “math” odd.) Look, don’t bring logic into this dog fight. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/6 "2009-07-28T15:05:57Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > Is\*\* Maths\*\*, which is so VERY wrong, actually the correct way to say you are studying this specific subject? Well, yeah, if you’re in the UK, Australia, or New Zealand. But if that’s where you are, you’d be driving on the wrong side of the road or standing upside down at the bottom of the earth, and “maths” would be the least of your worries. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/7 "2009-07-28T15:24:33Z")
After 15 years in the States, “math” is the one that still really hurts my ears. I find it very difficult to say it that way when talking to my son. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/8 "2009-07-28T18:06:27Z")
Well, of _course_ the correct way is “Maths.” Maths stands for [Mathematical Anti-Telharsic Harfatum Septomin](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj2NOTanzWI), so you need the ‘s’. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/9 "2009-07-28T18:39:33Z")
We’ve had it wrong in the US all along. You’re not studying mathematic, are you? No, you’re learning mathematics, properly abbreviated as maths. No idea how we came to drop that ‘s’ so many years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/10 "2009-07-28T18:50:50Z")
Hey, if you keep this up, some limey is going to make you go to hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/11 "2009-07-28T19:03:34Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Would you abbreviate “statistics” as “stat” or “stats”? And, if “stats”, why not “maths”? > > (I’m an Australian who has spent a lot of his life in the UK and in the US, and I find “math” odd.) Do you study “econ” or “econs”? “Statistics” actually is plural (or at least it can be). Do you silly people who use the word “maths” think of “mathematics” as plural? What is a mathematic? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/12 "2009-07-28T20:01:51Z")
Next time I drink a beer I hope it has a nice head of sud. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/13 "2009-07-28T20:19:48Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Do you study “econ” or “econs”? > > “Statistics” actually is plural (or at least it can be). Do you silly people who use the word “maths” think of “mathematics” as plural? What is a mathematic? I’ve studied a little economics, and never heard it referred to as either “econ” on “econs”. (I’ve also studied maths and some stats). “Economics”, “mathematics” and “politics” are usually treated as singular nouns, as is “statistics” when it’s the name of a discipline. Of these, only “statistics” has a commonly used singular “statistic”, because “statistics” can mean either a collection of numerical data, or the discipline used to study and analyse such numerical data: in the first sense, it’s plural, and in the second sense it’s singular. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/14 "2009-07-28T20:36:32Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I’ve studied a little economics, and never heard it referred to as either “econ” on “econs”. That surprises me. In my college days we routinely spoke of “econ majors.” ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/15 "2009-07-28T20:45:51Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > That surprises me. In my college days we routinely spoke of “econ majors.” Right – I have heard “econ” used occasionally as an adjective, but not as a noun. However, I would use “maths” and “stats” as adjectives as well as nouns – “maths textbook” or “stats exam”. Is that completely logical? Perhaps not, but it’s what sounds right to me. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/16 "2009-07-28T22:03:03Z")
At some point while crossing the Atlantic, the English language seems to have undergone a pluralectomy. Maths became math, “parliament are discussing whatever”\* became “parliament is discussing whatever”. And I’m sure there are other examples but I got caught up in my rage at the prior one. \*I _hate_ this. I hate this _so very much_. I cannot for the life of me justify it, but the British practice of treating collective nouns as plurals drives me absolutely insane. I know it happens sometimes in American English, I know it’s completely illogical to let a tiny little grammatical quick inspire rage, but I completely and totally _despise_ this construction. If you were to ask me, “limited to the realm of English grammar what is the worst thing in the universe, ever,” I would without a doubt say, “why, it’s the intolerable practice of regularly treating collective nouns as plurals. Why must the English do such awful things to their own language?” Seriously, it’s _awful_ and to American ears it’s the worst sound in the universe, and we have more guns and a greater inclination to use them than you British and Australians and New Zealanders and whoever else does it, so you better stop that right now. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/17 "2009-07-28T22:20:16Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Right – I have heard “econ” used occasionally as an adjective, but not as a noun. Wouldn’t “econ” as in “an econ major” (= a person majoring in Economics) still be a noun, not an adjective? If an English major is a major who is English, “English” is an adjective, but if an English major is someone who is majoring in English, wouldn’t it be a noun? ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/18 "2009-07-29T11:51:43Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Next time I drink a beer I hope it has a nice head of sud. After you finish your math test. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/19 "2009-07-29T12:31:19Z")
“Math” is a thervith attended by Catholicth… ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544/20 "2009-07-29T15:02:57Z")
I have studied math, stat, econ, chem, phys, bio, art, etc. in the US. No one added an S to any of these. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-miss-something-sorta-kinda-not-really-math-related/504544.md?page=2)