# Did I sexually harrass this girl? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 28, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133 "2006-11-28T22:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/21 "2006-11-29T03:52:49Z")
> [@](#): > > IF the attire of the young ladies in your employ leave something to be desired, bring it up with management first. See, I’ve just got to believe there’s some middle ground between saying nothing to someone in person, no matter how egregious the wardrobe malfunction, and filing a memo, in triplicate, with management. FMG didn’t say this woman dressed inappropriately every day, which would merit a chat with the boss; he just said she was dressed inappropriately that day. In fact, he assumed she was unintentionally flashing the highbeams and would want to know in order to cover up – an indication that the lady doesn’t dress a la Fredrick’s of Hollywood everyday. The general rule of thumb is that if you believe someone is unintentionally exposing themselves and you can alert them to it and save them embarrassment, you do so. If they can’t do anything about it, you don’t mention it (because they can’t do anything about it), and if they’re doing it on purpose, you don’t mention it – though you may want to mention it to the appropriate work authority. If my blouse has come unbuttoned – not unknown when a large-chested woman wears a blouse with cute little _not_ utilitarian buttons – or my skirt is tucked in my hose or my fly is down, I would hope my coworker would tell me. The death I would die of embarrassment to receive such an indicator from a blushing male coworker would be nothing compared to the thousand deaths I would die to be talked to by “management” about it. There’s a difference between trying to regulate how your coworkers dress and trying to assist them in not embarrassing themselves. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/22 "2006-11-29T03:52:51Z")
Oops! **chela** not **Chula**! ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/23 "2006-11-29T03:53:16Z")
O.K., someone’s got to say it: You assumed she did not _know_ the shirt and bra were revealing. But this may not be the case. A lot of women dress provocatively at work and enjoy the attention. If you point out to one of these types that their outfit is revealing, they will often feign ignorance. (“Oops, I didn’t _know_ my bra was see-through! Thanks for letting me know.”) Obviously I’m not saying all women are like this. But I have worked with some women whom I believe this was the case. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/24 "2006-11-29T04:01:42Z")
ALICE – > [@](#): > > However, I’m not 23, I’m 33. If I’m wearing a fitted shirt, and my nipples are erect, I know all about it, thankyouverymuch. Granted, it’s not a look I usually choose for the office, but if a co-worker or my boss commented as you did I would find it quite patronizing. It doesn’t sound like we’re talking about just “my it’s cold outside!” FMG said “The problem was (if it is a problem) was you could see through her bra and the PERFECT outline and detail of her breasts and nipples.” I’m assuming what we’re talking about is a combo of very thin shirt, very thin bra, _and_ boobs at attention. So this certainly is a YMMV scenario, because if you could sketch the details of my breasts just by seeing them _through my shirt_, I sure as hell would want someone to motion to me to pull my sweater closed, because I would _not_ be doing it on purpose, thankyouverymuch. I think it’s also worth noting that FMG didn’t become explicit as to exactly what the issue was until the woman tracked him down later and asked him to explain – which means she’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer, IMO; If someone’s motioning you to pull your sweater closed, it’s your breasts, honey. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/25 "2006-11-29T05:50:07Z")
[QUOTE=FormerMarineGuy] … I doubt I will hear of this again,… [/QUOTE] My advice: If that’s your considered opinion then walk away from the situation. Don’t bring it up again, with anybody. If you don’t want it to be a big deal don’t make a big deal out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Tomcat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Tomcat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tomcat)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/26 "2006-11-29T11:45:39Z")
Harrassment? Naw, her ass meant nothing, it was her tits you were staring at. One of the nice fashions here is the see-through shirt and dark bra. If you pointed something like that out here, most women would be “And?” -Tcat ---
**Author:** ![FormerMarineGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/65b543/32.png) [@FormerMarineGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FormerMarineGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/27 "2006-11-29T13:50:11Z")
Wow, a lot of great advice and point-of-view’s. I was going to respond to a lot of them individually, but it is too much! Okay, here goes: Most latin women that work here tend to dress a little on the sexy side. They show off their bodies, and I don’t mind that at all. Combine that with the fact we are in South Florida and you have half naked women working here. However, I do not believe this was intentional. If it was just a pointy nipple, I would have said nothing. Actually, I would have pointed it out to one of my friends so he could take advantage of the ‘peeking of the nipple’. It was not too cold, it was just see-through. I could see the perfect outline, little bumps and all. Yes, 23 is not a little girl, but she is still young and is looked at as being young, considering most of the guys here are min. age 40, up to 60’s. I am the youngest guy here, at age 30. Perhaps I am overreacting (this is the first job where I have actually worked with a woman in over 12 years). Perhaps I overreacted when telling her and should have left her nipples in the open. One of the older guys might have made a nice, crude comment to her, and that would have been guaranteed sexual harrassment. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/28 "2006-11-29T14:03:48Z")
You should be fine. I’d worry not. You had the best of intentions, you handled it calmly and professionally, and all should hopefully be well. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/29 "2006-11-29T14:41:17Z")
Well, you were the only guy in the room who made it perfectly clear to her that you were looking at her chest. I would have remained silent. It’s not your place to tell a woman that her shirt is open. ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/30 "2006-11-29T14:57:25Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] Well, you were the only guy in the room who made it perfectly clear to her that you were looking at her chest. I would have remained silent. It’s not your place to tell a woman that her shirt is open. [/QUOTE] So a woman should never tell a man that his fly is down, because that means she was looking at his crotch? That doesn’t jive to me. If it was a stranger then it might be different but a coworker, I’d tell them that their fly is down or that a button has come undone or that they have toilet paper stuck to their shoe. It’s just polite and would prevent further embarrasment. ---
**Author:** ![FormerMarineGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/65b543/32.png) [@FormerMarineGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FormerMarineGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/31 "2006-11-29T15:17:28Z")
[QUOTE=Madd Maxx] … or that they have toilet paper stuck to their shoe. [/QUOTE] Now that would offend me and make me feel comfortable. **Trunk** , I understand what you are saying, as with everyone else. The truth of the matter is I did look at her chest, the same way I would notice if a guy’s pants were unzipped (as pointed out by **Madd Maxx** ). So is there a fine line between sexual harrassment and just plain being nice? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/32 "2006-11-29T15:20:39Z")
I have to agree with Jodi. While your actions were not sexual harrassment, they could, brought up out of context, create a problem. Particularly if the young lady establishes a pattern of behavior of you making comments (even helpful, non-sexual comments) about her apperance. Add in a project going very badly where she decides she needs to cover her butt by complaining about something, and she could spin this against you. I think you’d come out ahead on the whole thing (unless there is other behavior we don’t know about), but the investigation itself would be inconvienent and uncomfortable. In the future, if it isn’t aggregious enough for the other hot Latina babes in the office to mention it to her, don’t you bother to bring it up (but don’t stare!!! A quick mental snapshot to get you through the day is sufficient.). But if her skirt is tucked into her pantyhose - that you need to clue her in on. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/33 "2006-11-29T15:31:43Z")
> [@](#): > > So is there a fine line between sexual harrassment and just plain being nice? In these sort of message board discussions, examples get exaggerated and people tend to take extreme positions, trying to define a bright line where none exists. But in reality – no, the line between being nice and sexually harrassing someone is not a fine one. One instance of telling someone to correct a perceived wardrobe malfunction out of the assumption (erroneous or not) that it actually _is_ a wardrobe malfunction and they would _want_ to correct it – that’s not sexual harrassment. In fact, you’d have been edging more in the harrassing direction if you’d pointed it out to your coworker in a sort of man-to-man “check out her tits” way and she’d caught you doing that. But as I think you know, if her wardrobe is consistently inappropriate and unprofessional to the extent you feel uncomfortable and feel you _must_ say something, you want to take that up with your boss, not with her. [Here’s](http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/fs-sex.html) an EEOC fact sheet on sexual harrassment that includes a working definition, if you’re interested. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/34 "2006-11-29T15:44:44Z")
She had on her bra, her blouse and her sweater and her bra and her blouse were not adequately shielding her nipples enough (at least for FMG) so he told her her nipples were showing. Yet if it was just a pointy nipple he was going to get his friend to check her out as well? How gallant! So now the receptionist has to 1)watch out for the crude old guys who according to the OP are most certainly capable of sexual harassment and 2) watch out for the double standards of a youngish male coworker who professes to have her best interests at heart but who really is checking out her breasts and alerting other youngish male coworkers to them as well? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/35 "2006-11-29T15:49:26Z")
I’ve nothing further to add. I just still want pics. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/36 "2006-11-29T15:51:02Z")
[QUOTE=chela] She had on her bra, her blouse and her sweater and her bra and her blouse were not adequately shielding her nipples enough (at least for FMG) so he told her her nipples were showing. Yet if it was just a pointy nipple he was going to get his friend to check her out as well? How gallant! So now the receptionist has to 1)watch out for the crude old guys who according to the OP are most certainly capable of sexual harassment and 2) watch out for the double standards of a youngish male coworker who professes to have her best interests at heart but who really is checking out her breasts and alerting other youngish male coworkers to them as well? [/QUOTE] Or 3) people who are reading WAY too much into it. If someone is attractive, I don’t see a harm in looking at them, after all, you’ve got to look at EVERYONE, right? We’re headed to Godwin territory very soon. ---
**Author:** ![FormerMarineGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/65b543/32.png) [@FormerMarineGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FormerMarineGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/37 "2006-11-29T15:52:55Z")
[QUOTE=chela] She had on her bra, her blouse and her sweater and her bra and her blouse were not adequately shielding her nipples enough (at least for FMG) so he told her her nipples were showing. Yet if it was just a pointy nipple he was going to get his friend to check her out as well? How gallant! So now the receptionist has to 1)watch out for the crude old guys who according to the OP are most certainly capable of sexual harassment and 2) watch out for the double standards of a youngish male coworker who professes to have her best interests at heart but who really is checking out her breasts and alerting other youngish male coworkers to them as well? [/QUOTE] Well, the sweater was actually wide open. She had one a white shirt, not really the thickest of styles. I guess she had a bra on, but you would not know by the appearance of it. Actually, her nipples were perfectly visible (and I would assume not just for me) Yes, if it was a pointy nipple, I might have pointed it out to one of my friends (I am a man and a pig, I admit with my head held high). The receptionist is surrounded by older men, who might not look at things the same as I do, and might be more than willing to walk a ‘fine line’ and take more risks. And in my defense, when I noticed her nipples, I was not looking to see if I could. It was just noticeable. You have never been in a situation where you noticed a guys pants unzipped, or a womans cleavage showing? Just because I noticed it does not really mean I was staring or being rude in noticing. I noticed, I pointed out because I thought it was the right thing to do at the time. I actually did not POINT it out, I gestured to her to close her sweater, in a nonchalant way. Afterwards I explained to her (in a casual non-sexual way) that you could see RIGHT through her shirt). ---
**Author:** ![FormerMarineGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/65b543/32.png) [@FormerMarineGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FormerMarineGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/38 "2006-11-29T15:54:37Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] I’ve nothing further to add. I just still want pics. [/QUOTE] If I were to post pics of her, I am sure that I would be be past borderline sexual harrassment, and would be all the way there! Think Eva Longoria, but a slight shade darker, and about two inches taller. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/39 "2006-11-29T16:03:18Z")
Question is- why mention it at all? Really, there was no reason to, and now she may be embarrassed, or even think you’re a pervert and a prig (as she meant for it to be like that, perhaps), and it could- possibly be considered sexual harrassment. After all, it was agesture, and you know what the gesture meant, but maybe she’ll think that it was for her to move her hands so you could get a better look. It’s not like she was a close freind, where’d you’d _know_ she would never dress like that, and would want to know about fashion ooops. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133/40 "2006-11-29T16:40:12Z")
Don’t know if I’d call it sexual harrassment (presumably you didn’t offer to shield her nipples from public view by covering her breasts with your hands? Because that might’ve crossed the line) but the OP did give me a slightly skeevy recollection of [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=134750&highlight=kitty+panties) . How embarrassing/out-of-line it was, in her eyes, depends a lot on the young woman’s temperament and her opinion of you, which is hard to glean from the story. Odds are she was momentarily embarrassed but not mortally wounded. I’d probably keep my nipple vigilance to myself for a while, though—unless she’s, you know, flopped out completely. Etiquette on female high-beam notification stikes me as a little dicier and more perilous than for the male open-barn-door advisory, which the latter (unless fashion has recently devolved even farther than I thought possible) is never an intentional “look.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-i-sexually-harrass-this-girl/382133.md?page=3)