# Did Iran Almost/Actually Commit An Act of War Against The USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 11, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341 "2011-10-11T20:09:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/41 "2011-10-12T16:27:04Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > To answer your question here though (I haven’t read through the whole thread, so it might have been answered already…sorry if it has), Ahmadinejad might not (probably didn’t) know anything about it if [Qud’s force](http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/11/what-is-the-quds-force/?hpt=hp_t1) was behind it. > > -XT I suppose after the Shah, the Iranians might’ve wanted to avoid one-man power by dividing up functions (like the Romans after they overthrew their last king) . . . Still, that’s one silly-fucked system they got, if the president’s “plausible deniability” is for **real!** ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/42 "2011-10-12T16:30:34Z")
I think you guys are being entirely too credulous. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/43 "2011-10-12T16:32:35Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I think you guys are being entirely too credulous. What, as to any of this having happened at all? Or as to Iran being behind it? Or what? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/44 "2011-10-12T16:34:16Z")
And who is ‘you guys’? -XT ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/45 "2011-10-12T16:34:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why? How does that serve Iran’s interests? Hell if I know. Ask Iran. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/46 "2011-10-12T16:37:23Z")
I would think that an Iranian plot involving a failed car salesman and Mexican drug cartels sounds like the plot of a bad television show, not a credible terrorist plot. Let’s not forget that the FBI has entrapped supposed “terrorists” in cockamamie plots before. They make contact with them, encourage them to act, then arrest them. I don’t think the government has a lot of credibility when it comes to this stuff anymore. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/47 "2011-10-12T16:39:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I suppose after the Shah, the Iranians might’ve wanted to avoid one-man power by dividing up functions (like the Romans after they overthrew their last king) . . . Still, that’s one silly-fucked system they got, if the president’s “plausible deniability” is for **real!** The president of Iran is not the country’s leader, political or otherwise. Next time the US gets caught on some black op, you personally have “plausible deniability”… because you aren’t in charge. Same deal. Nothing sleazy. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/48 "2011-10-12T16:42:51Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > The president of Iran is not the country’s leader, political or otherwise. Next time the US gets caught on some black op, you personally have “plausible deniability”… because you aren’t in charge. Same deal. Nothing sleazy. So who in high government would be **expected** to know about this sort of thing (or not)? The Supreme Leader? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/49 "2011-10-12T16:43:56Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I would think that an Iranian plot involving a failed car salesman and Mexican drug cartels sounds like the plot of a bad television show, not a credible terrorist plot. Good point. Better to wait and see where the plot goes, right? > [@](#): > > Let’s not forget that the FBI has entrapped supposed “terrorists” in cockamamie plots before. They make contact with them, encourage them to act, then arrest them. The only case like that I can think of is the “Liberty City Seven,” who did seem pretty freaking clueless even if they did _want_ to make some kind of terrorist attack. There’s a lot we don’t know here, but I’m not sure a case involving people with ties to the Iranian government is comparable. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/50 "2011-10-12T16:44:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I suppose after the Shah, the Iranians might’ve wanted to avoid one-man power by dividing up functions (like the Romans after they overthrew their last king) . . . Still, that’s one silly-fucked system they got, if the president’s “plausible deniability” is for **real!** You seem to be under the impression that Ahmadinejad is Iran’s leader. He’s no more it’s leader that the President of Israel is the leader of Israel. The real force is the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei which is why his official title is The Supreme Leader. As for Iran’s government setup, it’s largely a result of Khomeneini being a fan of Plato’s The Republic. It’s an example of rule by the intellectuals with himself, and later his successor, as the Philosopher King. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/51 "2011-10-12T16:45:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So who in high government would be **expected** to know about this sort of thing (or not)? The Supreme Leader? In theory. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/52 "2011-10-12T16:46:11Z")
[QUOTE=MOIDALIZE] I would think that an Iranian plot involving a failed car salesman and Mexican drug cartels sounds like the plot of a bad television show, not a credible terrorist plot. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I agree (somewhat) with what you are saying. It DOES seem pretty improbable, on the face of it. Of course, in the double and triple think realm of covert intelligence that might actually make this more plausible. Also, from what I read, this guy DID go to Iran, and there were 2 payments made of over $40k to a covert FBI account by someone. If the guy is a failed used car salesman it’s had to figure where he’d get the kind of scratch needed to do all that, let alone pay the proposed $1.5 million that was being asked. Still…I’m skeptical that this is anything close to cut and dried. There is a lot that is setting off my own BS detector here…FWIW, coming from me. -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/53 "2011-10-12T16:46:30Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You seem to be under the impression that Ahmadinejad is Iran’s leader. > > He’s no more it’s leader that the President of Israel is the leader of Israel. > > The real force is the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei which is why his official title is The Supreme Leader. > > As for Iran’s government setup, it’s largely a result of Khomeneini being a fan of Plato’s The Republic. > > It’s an example of rule by the intellectuals with himself, and later his successor, as the Philosopher King. So are these philosophers ultimately the ones in buck-stop charge of any black ops? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/54 "2011-10-12T16:48:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Good point. Better to wait and see where the plot goes, right? Might not be a real plot. Definitely too early to openly speculate on Iran’s supposed involvement. > [@](#): > > The only case like that I can think of is the “Liberty City Seven,” who did seem pretty freaking clueless even if they did _want_ to make some kind of terrorist attack. There’s a lot we don’t know here, but I’m not sure a case involving people with ties to the Iranian government is comparable. [There have been others.](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/30/national/main7103284.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/55 "2011-10-12T16:51:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So are these philosophers ultimately the ones in buck-stop charge of any black ops? “The name is Bond. Existentialist-Pragmatist.” ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/56 "2011-10-12T18:12:20Z")
In reading about this, the so-called plot was announced back in June. So why the sudden interest? Could it be that Atty. General Holder was about to be served a subpoena? (Regarding his role in “Fast and Furious”) I’ll reserve judgment till more info emerges. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/57 "2011-10-12T18:18:00Z")
You might want to reserve your wild-ass conjectures as well. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/58 "2011-10-12T18:18:54Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > In reading about this, the so-called plot was announced back in June. [The plotting is supposed to have continued long after June.](http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/11/timeline-plot-to-kill-saudi-ambassador/?hpt=hp_t2) If Holder was subpoenaed today, he’s not appearing before Congress for a while. I don’t know how announcing a plot yesterday is supposed to distract everybody from that. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/59 "2011-10-12T21:12:41Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You seem to be under the impression that Ahmadinejad is Iran’s leader. > > He’s no more it’s leader that the President of Israel is the leader of Israel. > > The real force is the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei which is why his official title is The Supreme Leader. > > As for Iran’s government setup, it’s largely a result of Khomeneini being a fan of Plato’s The Republic. > > It’s an example of rule by the intellectuals with himself, and later his successor, as the Philosopher King. In many regimes, the person who is officially in charge and the person who is actually in charge may not be the same person. Deng Xiaoping, for instance, ruled China for 14 years without actually holding any political office. In countries like these, you has to see who holds the actual power, rather than the person who bears the right title. My point is this: Ahmadinejad either controls, or is closely associated with those who control the Revolutionary Guard, the post powerful force in Iran. Saying that he doesn’t officially have the power to do what he wants doesn’t change the fact that there may be no-one in Iran who can actually stop him from doing what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/60 "2011-10-12T21:25:27Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > In many regimes, the person who is officially in charge and the person who is actually in charge may not be the same person. Deng Xiaoping, for instance, ruled China for 14 years without actually holding any political office. In countries like these, you has to see who holds the actual power, rather than the person who bears the right title. > > My point is this: Ahmadinejad either controls, or is closely associated with those who control the Revolutionary Guard, the post powerful force in Iran. Saying that he doesn’t officially have the power to do what he wants doesn’t change the fact that there may be no-one in Iran who can actually stop him from doing what he wants. 😕 So, who (if anyone in Iranian top-level government) could reasonably be expected to be behind this kind of thing or know about it – the President, the Supreme Leader, or who? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341.md?page=4)