# Did Iran Almost/Actually Commit An Act of War Against The USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 11, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341 "2011-10-11T20:09:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/101 "2011-10-13T21:16:29Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > And the top Iranians are all in their right minds. _What?_ [/Don Draper] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/102 "2011-10-13T21:19:02Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > How am I supposed to prove anything sitting in front of a computer? 😕 We do that all the time around virtual-here. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/103 "2011-10-13T21:43:07Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > The same guy who talked to used car salesman and told him “Trust us, we’re Quds. We’ll even send some money for you”. > > What’s the evidence - besides used car salesaman saying so - that these guys are indeed Quds/Iranians? So, you think someone else gave him the money then…they just weren’t Quds? That’s fine…in fact, it’s one of my theories as well. But there isn’t any evidence about it one way or the other, yet. My question was more along the lines of a demonstration that there IS some evidence that SOMEONE was up to SOMETHING…that it wasn’t all just the FBI making shit up. -XT ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/104 "2011-10-13T22:13:48Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > So, you think someone else gave him the money then…they just weren’t Quds? That’s fine…in fact, it’s one of my theories as well. But there isn’t any evidence about it one way or the other, yet. My question was more along the lines of a demonstration that there IS some evidence that SOMEONE was up to SOMETHING…that it wasn’t all just the FBI making shit up. Well, I think I’m just deconstructing the narrative and pointing to the fact that there could be another version of events that is as plausible as the one offered by Government. All that beyond reasonable doubt principle. I actually read on Drudge Report the only line I was able to find about the evidence of Quds/Iranian connection and it goes something like… the guy “understood” that he was dealing with Quds/Iranians (I assume they introduced themselves as such) which is relatively easy evidence to defeat in a court of law. Actually, it is quite laughable to listen to Obama today saying: > [@](#): > > And we also know that he had direct links, was paid by and directed by individuals in the Iranian government. Now, those facts are there for all to see. > **[U.S. official: ‘Multiple’ sources strengthen case against Iran | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2011/10/13/world/meast/iran-saudi-plot/index.html)** > > “Multiple” sources have corroborated the report about an alleged plot to kill Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to the United States, a U.S. official told CNN Thursday. Someone should tell him that no facts are offered whatsoever to prove that he was paid by Iranian government. He was “paid” allright, some money changed hands, someone paid someone. But it’s a conjecture to conclude on that basis it was indeed Iranians. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/105 "2011-10-13T23:42:23Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > And the Israeli embassy. And embassies in Argentina. I’m a bit skeptical though. Like Osama crowding behind his wife, that seems over the top. > > I agree that the US isn’t going to get into a war over this, bu there might be some intersting reactions ragardless. I didn’t catch his name, but on the radio news this morning, some politician was hot for this to be reason for a very aggressive dismantling of Iran’s nuclear program. He said, approximately, “I don’t think anyone would want a country that assassinates people in foreign countries to have nuclear weapons.” Too funny. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Ayebaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darth_ayebaw/32/9870_2.png) [@Darth\_Ayebaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Ayebaw)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/106 "2011-10-14T13:55:54Z")
Many people in this thread are asking ‘Is Iran really that dumb?’, but I think the question that should be asked is whether or not they’re that smart. Look at how many people here don’t believe it. Heck, around a third of the population (more or less depending on which poll you pick) doesn’t believe Al-Qaeda was responsible for 9/11, and a sizable minority don’t even believe they exist! There’s a hell of a lot less (known) evidence linking the supposed culprits in this case. This makes them look like idiots, or even more likely, like they’re not even responsible. I mean if they wanted to get away with it… Anyways, it seems to me that if it was an official military action by Iran carried out against Saudi and American citizens on US soil, it could very well be considered an act of war. Then, what’s really “war” has changed considerably. We’re currently bombing six countries, that we know of, and we’re not at war with any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/107 "2011-10-14T15:26:41Z")
[Here](http://news.yahoo.com/alleged-iran-plot-wikileaks-052400830.html) is one theory why Iran may have targeted the ambassador. Long story short: Wikileaks. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/108 "2011-10-14T16:01:53Z")
According to [this](http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/13/world/meast/iran-saudi-plot/index.html?hpt=hp_t2) CNN article, the case actually seems to be getting stronger, instead of weakening (which is what I expected): > [@](#): > > Obama said Attorney General Eric Holder “laid out a very specific set of facts” and the United States would not have brought the case forward if it weren’t able to back up the allegations. > > “What we know is that an individual of Iranian-American descent was involved in a plot to assassinate the ambassador to the United States from Saudi Arabia,” Obama said. “And we also know that he had direct links, was paid by and directed by individuals in the Iranian government. Now, those facts are there for all to see.” > > He praised the “outstanding” U.S. intelligence work that helped thwart the alleged plot, which he said would also have killed innocent civilians. > > “We would not be bringing forward a case unless we knew exactly how to support all the allegations that are contained in the indictment,” he said. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/109 "2011-10-14T16:38:11Z")
And whether or not Wikileaks provides a credible motive, I think this is a pretty solid link: > [@](#): > > U.S. officials tell The Daily Beast that they knew the Quds Force was behind the plot when the money was transferred in part because the Treasury had monitored the overseas account and identified it long before as an account used by the Iranian organization for supporting operations overseas. “We believe the information is ironclad,” one U.S. intelligence official told The Daily Beast. This official added that other technical intelligence confirmed that this was a Quds Force plot, and that Arbabsiar was not working on his own. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/110 "2011-10-17T02:06:35Z")
This is how you go “rogue”: [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/revealed-foxs-best-man-and-his-ties-to-irans-opposition-2371352.html](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/revealed-foxs-best-man-and-his-ties-to-irans-opposition-2371352.html) A UK Government “advisor” wants to perform “regime change” in Iran and does some freelancing for Mossad. Then everyone washes their hands from him. Note to Quds - this is how’s its done. Now go get some soap. Talk about conspiracies, eh? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/111 "2011-10-17T12:50:10Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > What the Arab countries really need to do. . . . This sort of nonsense belongs in The BBQ Pit. It has no relevance to this thread and it looks a lot like trolling. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/112 "2011-10-17T16:47:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t know. I’m asking you how the government failed to prove something when it looks like they’ve succeeded once and not gotten to that point yet in two other cases. Like I said, these guys seem to be idiots and that may be the case with this Iran thing, too. But the fact that they’re idiots who went for a sting operation doesn’t mean the government entrapped them. I’m thinking the problem is that people keep using “entrapment” as a legal term when that’s not what happened. Just because they persuaded one guy to plead guilty doesn’t mean anything. He knows he’s going away for the rest of his life and was probably made an offer he couldn’t refuse like extra privileges in prison or something similar. As for me having to prove anything, it’s up to the government to prove they didn’t coerce the guy into committing the crime and so far, with exactly one case made public, the Feds have “lost” the one recording that they say proves they didn’t entrap the accused. So there’s no way they can prove they didn’t entrap him but do you think any jury will give a shit? And as to whether these guys are being entrapped. All of them are unemployed losers, in their teens or early twenties, mouthing off about the Great Satan and how Islam is going to come and smite America and what have you. That’s how they come to the attention of the Feds. And then after a period of loser/Fed interface these guys suddenly are behind the wheel of a truck bomd or in pssession of thousands or tens of thousands of dollars worth of weapons/explosives. In any Fed-free situation, the unemployed losers would just continue being unemployed losers. Maybe some of them might find a job and buy into the decadent western lifestyle with the proceeds enough to not be so angry or upset with the world that they want to blow shit up. But what happens is that the Feds come along and a team of guys including psycologists work on, effectively, how to set the fucker up to become a bomber/turn up to buy weapons with money they’d never have been able to earn/something similar. Now whether the Feds can come up with some scam to cover their ass legally (and in the one case we know about they “lost” it) but come on, to all intents and purposes this is all just bullshit and some dumb kids/adults are being set up to earn a few cheap headlines and persuade the rubes that the Feds are protecting them from terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341/113 "2011-10-17T17:22:00Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > And as to whether these guys are being entrapped. All of them are unemployed losers, in their teens or early twenties, mouthing off about the Great Satan and how Islam is going to come and smite America and what have you. That’s how they come to the attention of the Feds. > (…) > But what happens is that the Feds come along and a team of guys including psycologists work on, effectively, how to set the fucker up to become a bomber/turn up to buy weapons with money they’d never have been able to earn/something similar. Now whether the Feds can come up with some scam to cover their ass legally (and in the one case we know about they “lost” it) but come on, to all intents and purposes this is all just bullshit and some dumb kids/adults are being set up to earn a few cheap headlines and persuade the rubes that the Feds are protecting them from terrorism. That’s it in a nutshell. To use the redneck joke shtick… if the guy most skilled with weapons and logistics is the Government’s undercover agent…. you might be entrapped. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iran-almost-actually-commit-an-act-of-war-against-the-usa/599341.md?page=5)