# Did Iraq seek to buy African uranium? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 17, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128 "2003-07-17T13:12:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/21 "2003-07-18T02:02:32Z")
Drawing on the testimony of friend **Q.E.D.** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=198447](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=198447) …it takes roughly 4000 tons of “yellowcake” to produce one uranium A-bomb. So, given the vague outlines of the alleged deal, at the very most, and under the best of circumstances, Iraq would have purchased enough ore to produce one-eighth of a bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/22 "2003-07-18T02:23:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*So, given the vague outlines of the alleged deal, at the very most, and under the best of circumstances, Iraq would have purchased enough ore to produce one-eighth of a bomb. \*\* And that only if the infamous aluminum tubes had actually been used to build a centrifugation plant. Sadly for Bush, that’s not the case. It seems that last month, while Mahdi Shukur Obeidi was being used to frighten us with the gas centrifuge parts hidden under his rose garden, he told his interrogators that Iraq had NOT revived it’s uranium enrichment program. > [@](#): > > The White House said last month Obeidi’s account was evidence of the ousted Baghdad regime’s bomb ambitions. But U.S. officials did not, at the same time, report that the scientist had contradicted assertions that the program had already been revived and the tubes were part of it. [-here](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=3&u=/ap/20030717/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_aluminum_tubes) Someone’s been cherry-picking again. It’s getting to be a mighty big pie ! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/23 "2003-07-18T02:39:23Z")
I think of it as a happy and zen-like acceptance of the wondrous machinations of _karma_. Outwardly, very similar to gloating. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/24 "2003-07-18T02:42:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > \*\*It is possible Sadaam was sniffing around in the context of a long term plan for eventual revival of his nuclear program. > > Indeed, I consider that likely. However, that’s not something to have been pissing ones pants over like certain parties were. \*\* Note the fallback positions of the Bush-bash batch. The problem was supposed to be that Bush lied. Presidential credibility was ruined. Bob Graham discussed impeachment. Of course, Bush’s statement was literally true, since the British did tell us that they had learned of Iraqi efforts to buy African uranium. So, the critics next say that Bush’s statement implied American agreement with the British conclusion. Trouble with that fallback is that the British conclusion likely was factually correct. As **Collounsbury** puts it, there probably was some sniffing around. The next fallback is that “certain parties” were pissing their pants over the uranium purchase. However, Bush only mentioned it in one single sentence of one speech, so that doesn’t work. The people who are making a fuss about this are Bush’s opponents. Other posters here allege that the amount and quality of uranium that Iraq could have purchased wouldn’t have been adequate to build a bomb. FAIK this may be so, but we’ve come a long way from the original allegation of Presidential lying. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/25 "2003-07-18T02:54:58Z")
Aw goddam contrare, as they say in Lubbock. It serves to point out that any conceivable threat from Iraq of the “mushroom cloud” variety existed in the realm of probability somewhere between theoretical and delusional. Yet this selfsame “threat” is offered, with a straight face, as _a_ justification for urgent and immediate action, that is, war. This may not be technically a “lie”. It hardly matters. It has taken God only knows how many licks to get to the center of the Tootsie Roll Pop. Regretably, the brown stuff in the center ain’t chocolate. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/26 "2003-07-18T04:32:41Z")
**Sam Stone** said > [@](#): > > I mean, the U.S. intelligence community believes that Iraq was trying to buy uranium from Africa. The British intelligence service STILL stands by their assessment of same, despite immense pressure. > > Given that, we can conclude the following: > > [HOLD IT. We ain’t giving you that. It ain’t a given] Does the US intelligence community really believe that? They eveidently didn’t before Bush gave his Cinci speech last year. What changed their mind? The British Intel is gonna go down big time with Tony Blair, if they stick to their story. “I got proof but I can’t show you.” They got “dick!” Money talks, bullshit walks. The opnion piece from the On-line opinion screed from the WSJ says > [@](#): > > The larger truth is that it was a deeply held consensus of the U.S. intelligence community that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, including a nuclear weapons program. Is that true? If so, why would Tenent crush the Administrations attempt to use false info in the Cinci speech? The WSJ’s opinion/editorial page is so right wing that it can’t be taken at face value. So, **december** , your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to track down the NIE report which shows, according to your fellow travelers over at WSJ opinions, that there was a consensus opinion that Iraq was trying to buy yellowcake. Go find it. As I said many, many months ago: _There weren’t any WMD_. And now I’ll add, \*Tony Blair and British Intel are lying, either deliberately(God help him) or unintentionally. They have bogus proof, if that. And the current administration in the US is trying to cover up their mistakes faster that any administration since Nixon. The parallels are staggering. \* They don’t get you for making a mistake. They get you for lying. Try reading history. ---
**Author:** ![zigaretten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/91b2a8/32.png) [@zigaretten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zigaretten)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/27 "2003-07-18T06:48:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > …it takes roughly 4000 tons of “yellowcake” to produce one uranium A-bomb. So, given the vague outlines of the alleged deal, at the very most, and under the best of circumstances, Iraq would have purchased enough ore to produce one-eighth of a bomb. I hope I’ll be forgiven for cross-posting. > [@](#): > > Yellowcake is what you get after you treat the ore. It is concentrated U[sub]3[/sub]O[sub]8[/sub]. > > 1 kg of U[sub]3[/sub]O[sub]8[/sub] contains 848g of uranium which is about 0.7% U-235. > > So 1 kg of yellowcake contains about 5.936g of U-235. > > A bomb requires about 5kg of 90% enriched uranium or 4,500g of U-235. > > So one bomb would require about 760kg (or 1,670 lbs) of yellowcake. > > Of course, yellowcake can’t be converted to enriched uranium with 100% efficiency, so considerably more would actually be required. > > Data from [here](http://chemcases.com/2003version/nuclear/nc-06.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/28 "2003-07-18T08:01:01Z")
> [@](#): > > **Bippy** : > We won’t get to know what actually happened. Damn! Then how can we revisionists get started? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/29 "2003-07-18T10:31:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > So, **december** , your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to track down the NIE report The NIE report is classified, so an effort to get a copy could result in a prison sentence. Prison rules might prohibit posting on message boards, so I dare not tke the risk. Actually the cited editorial recommends that the NIE report be declassified. Maybe Bush will do that. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_Mexico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f6c823/32.png) [@Roger\_Mexico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_Mexico)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/30 "2003-07-18T10:53:54Z")
One thing for sure, Iraq possesses the world’s greatest supply of depleted uranium, should anyone desire to mine it. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/31 "2003-07-18T11:08:54Z")
A definition of what constitutes a weapons program is in order. As I am led to believe, the Iraqi nuclear program consisted of some scientists, paperwork, and some centrifuge parts under rose bushes. If this is a reasonable definition of what constitutes a weapons program then indeed Iraq had a weaons program. The question is of what relevance is this. How much of a threat is it? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/32 "2003-07-18T11:49:03Z")
Is yellowcake useful in making one of those “dirty” bombs people were worried about before the invasion? I am talking about the “radioactive material around an explosive core” thing that a terrorist might use. Not a nuclear or atomic explosive _per se_, just a way of spreading nuclear contamination around a target to terrorize the population. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/33 "2003-07-18T12:09:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\*As I am led to believe, the Iraqi nuclear program consisted of some scientists, paperwork, and some centrifuge parts under rose bushes. If this is a reasonable definition of what constitutes a weapons program then indeed Iraq had a weaons program. The question is of what relevance is this. How much of a threat is it? \*\* Obviously, any continuing nuclear program carried the risk that Saddam might eventually acquire nuclear weapons, with potentially catastrophic consequences. If nothing more is found then the hidden paperwork and centrifuge parts, then Iraq was in violation of their 1991 peace agreement and several Security Council resolutions. It would be legal justification for war, by the UN. The way the stuff was hidden, it could never have been discovered, so it shows that UN weapons inspections could not have been a fully adequate measure. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/34 "2003-07-18T12:14:52Z")
I swear, **december** , if they find a soggy cocktail napkin that Saddam bin Laden had written “nukes” upon, you in would be in here screaming “Smoking gun! Smoking gun! Weapons program!” And **Shodan** , you keep stretching like that, you’ll be able to tie your shoes without bending over. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/35 "2003-07-18T13:10:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Obviously, any continuing nuclear program carried the risk that Saddam might eventually acquire nuclear weapons, with potentially catastrophic consequences. > > If nothing more is found then the hidden paperwork and centrifuge parts, then Iraq was in violation of their 1991 peace agreement and several Security Council resolutions. It would be legal justification for war, by the UN. > > The way the stuff was hidden, it could never have been discovered, so it shows that UN weapons inspections could not have been a fully adequate measure. \*\* yeah, but how much of threat is it, and in what time frame? As I understand it, only the UNSC had the right to decide if it was going to authorize th euse of force to enforce its resolutions. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/36 "2003-07-18T13:20:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > yeah, but how much of threat is it, and in what time frame? We didn’t know and still don’t know. Under the 1991 agreement and the SC resulutions, Saddam had the responsibility of showing the world that there was no threat. He didn’t do that. I see no reason why he should have been given any more slack. In fact, I think his non-cooperations should have led to an attack years ago. > [@](#): > > As I understand it, only the UNSC had the right to decide if it was going to authorize the use of force to enforce its resolutions. This is a reasonable argument. The Coalition may not have a legal right to enforce UN resulutions. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/37 "2003-07-18T13:41:47Z")
Wouold _you_ be willing to die to end such a program? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/38 "2003-07-18T14:48:10Z")
**december** , why didn’t you consider it a reasonable argument a few months ago? It certainly was being made, rather forcefully too. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/39 "2003-07-18T15:10:28Z")
I thought he didn’t even believe in the validity of the UN as an organisation, let alone its authority in these matters. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128/40 "2003-07-18T15:21:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\ ***december** , why didn’t you consider it a reasonable argument a few months ago? It certainly was being made, rather forcefully too. \*\* I think it’s a reasonable argument as far as it goes. I just think the arguments on the other side are stronger. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-iraq-seek-to-buy-african-uranium/189128.md?page=3)