# Did Jesus actually teach anything new? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 3, 2003, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296 "2003-09-03T10:08:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296/21 "2003-09-05T07:22:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meta-Gumble \* > \*\*If we leave aside for a moment Christ’s divine authority and any other metaphysical teachings, is there anything that Jesus taught concerning ethics and how we should live that had not been taught before? \*\* **No.** There was nothing new at all. There’s not even any compelling reason to believe that a historical person akin to the New Testament’s Jesus – even assuming he existed (which is far more doubtful than even many critical scholars are inclined to publicly admit) – said or did any of the things claimed by the NT. In any case, you can find all of the moral teachings attributed to Jesus, including any “moral imperative” that I’m aware of, in the words of plenty of other earlier moral teachers, religious and secular. For just one example, the wandering Cynic philosophers of the time and location of the alleged events of the NT’s Jesus taught much the same moral lessons and imperitives, and often in highly similar language. There’s ample reason to believe that the creators of the surmised “sayings” document “Q” simply collected the saying of these Cynics and numerous previous moral teachers, whereupon the evangelists used “Q” to help mythicalize a “Jesus” as the putative mouthpiece of these collected sayings. ---
**Author:** ![biqu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@biqu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biqu)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296/22 "2003-09-05T10:47:45Z")
I clicked on the www link in **rjung** ’s post, and found links to atheist evangelism sites, among which an essay titled [Should We Admire Jesus?](http://www.nobeliefs.com/jesus.htm) can be found. This essay argues that claims of Jesus’s unsurpassed moral character are not supported by the evidence of the gospels. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296/23 "2003-09-05T11:10:43Z")
**amore** ’s link title reminded me of the classic **Lolo** thread - [Jesus: I’m not impressed](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92421), so I just had to look it up and re-aquaint myself with our dearly departed friend… Grim 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296/24 "2003-09-05T14:06:00Z")
Hush your mouth! **grimpixie**! You are never to invoke that name. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296/25 "2003-09-05T15:13:30Z")
grimpixie- there are other Torah laws however which mandate helping one’s personal enemy when in distress, and which urge Israelites not to oppress “strangers”, Egyptians & Edomites, the latter two of which Israelites has reasons to hold grudges against. Ambushed, you apparently have more faith in the existence of Q rather than that of Jesus. As tenuous as the evidence for JC existing may or may not be. it definitely outranks the evidence for Q, which was a theoretical construct proposed by German higher critics of the Bible, not a actual document anyone had ever seen or heard of. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296/26 "2003-09-05T17:02:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ambushed \* > document “Q” simply collected the saying \*\* What direct evidence is there that this “Q” ever actually existed? If one must reject the existence of Christ on the basis of insufficient direct evidence, then one should be even more inclined to reject the existence of “Q”. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296/27 "2003-09-05T20:33:44Z")
The greatest man of all time is and was Jesus. The message of Jesus was and is the most divinely inspired notion ever to be realized by the mind of men. Divine, in-as-much as Jesus, through great material insight, came to understand that nothing in this world of being or non-being matters but love. Simple unadulterated love. The love of being rather than the love of non-being. Nothing else matters. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296/28 "2003-09-05T20:49:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*What direct evidence is there that this “Q” ever actually existed? > > If one must reject the existence of Christ on the basis of insufficient direct evidence, then one should be even more inclined to reject the existence of “Q”. \*\* But that’s not what he’s saying. He didn’t conclusively say “there was no Christ”; he said that the evidence suggests that the Christ that is portrayed in the Bible is likely an amalgamation of various stories that were circulating at the time. Whether Christ was a real person or whether Q was a real source are both beside the point. The point is that it’s unlikely that one single person named Christ said and did all the things attributed to him. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296/29 "2003-09-05T21:03:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*Whether Christ was a real person or whether Q was a real source are both beside the point. The point is that it’s unlikely that one single person named Christ said and did all the things attributed to him. \*\* Very much like Arthurian myth, a personal obsession of mine. In fact, the similarities between Arthur and Christ, as figures, are remarkable. Obviously, one inspired a much more devoted following than the other, but both share many basic similarities. For example, though Arthur is seen as much more “human” than Christ is, both have many more acts attributed to them than any one person could accomplish. I’ve often thought that Christ and Arthur have a similar lineage: both were real figures in history, inspirational in their lifetime but even moreso after they died. The histories of both have been embellished, by now, to the point that their original character is unrecognizable. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296/30 "2003-09-06T00:10:07Z")
I just returned that book to the library, otherwise I would be able to cite several examples of Jesus’s words in the Gospels that were lifted directly from the Isis-Osiris mystery religion of Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296/31 "2003-09-06T01:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FriarTed \* > \*\*Ambushed, you apparently have more faith in the existence of Q rather than that of Jesus. As tenuous as the evidence for JC existing may or may not be. it definitely outranks the evidence for Q, which was a theoretical construct proposed by German higher critics of the Bible, not a actual document anyone had ever seen or heard of. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*What direct evidence is there that this “Q” ever actually existed? > > If one must reject the existence of Christ on the basis of insufficient direct evidence, then one should be even more inclined to reject the existence of “Q”. \*\* Whoa, guys! I don’t hold anything even _approaching_ a strong opinion defending the existence of “Q”! I consider it a fairly reasonable hypothesis, and it’s widely accepted by even critical biblical scholars, but I, too, have my doubts about it’s existence and never meant to suggest otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296/32 "2003-09-06T01:41:10Z")
Thanks for the assist, **blowero**! ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296/33 "2003-09-06T02:15:26Z")
Jesus taught spiritual principles in His own knowledge of them. Nothing He taught was “new” in concept, but He probably worded the principles different than others. Master teachers of these principles have always been around since recorded history. Most of the major religions had their beginning from the words of these teachers. These spiritual principles are the guiding path for those who seek the “father, God, Allah, Buddha, etc.” [http://www.beyondtheveil.net/prayers.html](http://www.beyondtheveil.net/prayers.html) [http://www.ndeweb.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=65&post=713#POST713](http://www.ndeweb.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=65&post=713#POST713) The above are some comparisons of religious thought. Love Leroy [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-actually-teach-anything-new/199296.md?page=1)