# Did Jesus die a Christian? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127 "2012-08-10T21:42:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/21 "2012-08-11T02:46:23Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > \*\*\*And then a voice came from Heaven: > > “Funny you should say that…!” > > * * * > > (A select few will get the joke- no need to re-tell it for everyone else!) One of my favorites. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/22 "2012-08-11T15:07:57Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > \*\*\*And then a voice came from Heaven: > > “Funny you should say that…!” > > * * * > > (A select few will get the joke- no need to re-tell it for everyone else!) > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > One of my favorites. Mine too. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/23 "2012-08-11T15:34:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > > [@kanicbird](#): > > > > He died King of the Jews. > > In his own mind (if he actually thought so). Few, if any, Jews would have accepted that. I can declare myself “King of the World”, but that doesn’t make it true. I believe the title ‘King of the Jews’ (if the Biblical account is to be believed\*) wasn’t actually claimed by Jesus either. (\*and if the Biblical acount is to be discarded, then there’s nothing to discuss here) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/24 "2012-08-11T15:45:37Z")
> [@MR.REED](#): > > This further begs the question of how the “King of the Jews”, would not die a jew? No it doesn’t. Just as Jew \<\> Israeli, Judaist \<\> Jew. And anyway, history is replete with examples of monarchs who are not the same original nationality as their subjects. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/25 "2012-08-11T16:08:05Z")
Do Jews get baptized? Jesus did. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/26 "2012-08-11T17:32:34Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Do Jews get baptized? Jesus did. Then what was John the Baptist doing? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/27 "2012-08-11T17:41:21Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I believe the title ‘King of the Jews’ (if the Biblical account is to be believed\*) wasn’t actually claimed by Jesus either. > > (\*and if the Biblical acount is to be discarded, then there’s nothing to discuss here) The translation of the previously quoted passage varies, but it reads like jesus was equivocating. Pilate asks him if he is the king of the jews to which he replies something like “So you say”, or “You have said it”, kind of the equivalent of “I didn’t say it, but I’m not gonna argue with you.” Some translations, of course, render the answer as more direct, probably because those would qualify more as interpretations than true translations. Of course, “King” does not always carry a constitutional requirement of NBC or specific ethnicity: jesus logically could have been king of the jews without being a jew himself, in theory at least, not sure what jewish law was at the time. There is a rather interesting side question here: if Pilate conducted an official inquiry or hearing on the jesus thing, of which this interview was a part, would it by Roman law have to be carried out in Latin? As a Roman subject, would jesus have to be at least passably bilingual? And how would the translation of the interview from Latin into Aramaic and/or Koine have distorted its meaning? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/28 "2012-08-11T19:12:34Z")
While he was dying on the cross or before, did Jesus ask himself into his life? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/29 "2012-08-11T21:49:43Z")
> [@](#): > > The Prophet Muhammed was certainly a Muslim But then again he is not God, he is just Allah’s Prophet. On the other side of the street if YHWH is not a Jew, Allah is not a Muslim, then the Trinity is not a Christian. And if we’re to use the small-o orthodox theology of the overwhelming majority of Christianity across history and today, then Jesus is one with God the Father. In his lifetime he did act like someone who worships the Father, but once Risen, need he worship himself? If the gospel is to be relied upon, Jesus \*as a man \*lived and died as a dissident-fringe Jew and his followership did not start moving away from Jewish ritual observance until Paul showed up and pointed out that Risen Jesus would be above that. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/30 "2012-08-11T22:42:35Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Do Jews get baptized? [Sort of.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikveh) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/31 "2012-08-11T23:04:08Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > While he was dying on the cross or before, did Jesus ask himself into his life? Saving oneself sounds a lot like masturbation to me. [QUOTE=kanicbird] He died King of the Jews. [/QUOTE] Actually, that’s what the \*Romans \*dubbed him sarcastically. I don’t think he made the claim himself. And if the Bible is to be believed, then he can’t have been (at least not by legalistic, feudal meanings of the word “king”), since for all the time the New Testament spends on begats ; Jesus still demonstrably couldn’t be of David’s lineage, what with him being the son of God and of virgin birthed :). ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/32 "2012-08-11T23:19:06Z")
Wasn’t Jesus buried in the Jewish tradition? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/33 "2012-08-11T23:25:24Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Wasn’t Jesus buried in the Jewish tradition? He turned in his grave. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/34 "2012-08-12T11:29:32Z")
> [@MR.REED](#): > > Jesus undoubtedly is the most famous Jew in history, yet he is the inspiration of the religion of Christianity. With the fundamental beliefs of death being different with Judaism and Christianity; would it matter if Jesus died a Christian or a Jew? Also; did Jesus die a Christian or a Jew? Jesus died a Jew,and the first Christians were Jews who believed that Jesus was the Messiah. The Jews do not believe that Jesus filled the prophies! ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/35 "2012-08-12T14:28:57Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Of course, “King” does not always carry a constitutional requirement of NBC or specific ethnicity: jesus logically could have been king of the jews without being a jew himself, in theory at least, not sure what jewish law was at the time. The actual king of Judea at the time was Herod, who IIRC was Roman, not Jewish, although he followed some Jewish customs to try to win the favor of his subjects. > [@Kobal2](#): > > And if the Bible is to be believed, then he can’t have been (at least not by legalistic, feudal meanings of the word “king”), since for all the time the New Testament spends on begats ; Jesus still demonstrably couldn’t be of David’s lineage, what with him being the son of God and of virgin birthed :). Well if the Bible is to believed, two different gospels take pains to trace Jesus’ lineage back to King David. (Of course, they contradict each other; but still, the claim that he was of the royal family is there). ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/36 "2012-08-12T18:39:34Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Well if the Bible is to believed, two different gospels take pains to trace Jesus’ lineage back to King David. (Of course, they contradict each other; but still, the claim that he was of the royal family is there). There is a small logical flaw there: the lineage is patrilineal – the holy cuckold was a direct descendant of King David. How is that supposed to work? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/37 "2012-08-12T19:12:19Z")
> [@For You](#): > > There is a small logical flaw there: the lineage is patrilineal – the holy cuckold was a direct descendant of King David. How is that supposed to work? Mary was descended from David. In Judaism, I believe it descends through the mother, doesn’t it? (As in if your mother is Jewish, that’s what counts, not your father. At least, in Orthodox and more stricter sects of Conservative) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/38 "2012-08-12T19:19:55Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > The actual king of Judea at the time was Herod, who IIRC was Roman, not Jewish, although he followed some Jewish customs to try to win the favor of his subjects. Herod wasn’t Roman, though he courted the favour of influential Romans. He was an Idumaean, and religiously Jewish - though Idumaeans were considered a distinct ethnicity. His family had allegedly converted to Judaism in the prevous century. > **[Herod the Great | Biography](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great#Biography)** > > Herod was born around 72 BCE in Idumea, south of Judea. He was the second son of Antipater the Idumaean, a high-ranking official under ethnarch Hyrcanus II, and Cypros, a Nabatean Arab princess from Petra, in present-day Jordan. Herod's father was by descent an Edomite; his ancestors had been forcibly converted to Judaism. Herod was raised as a Jew. Strabo, a contemporary of Herod, held that the Idumaeans, whom he identified as of Nabataean origin, constituted the majority Herod rose to power lar... ---
**Author:** ![Mornac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Mornac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mornac)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/39 "2012-08-12T19:25:02Z")
As the Second Person of the Trinity, Jesus is God and by extension, omniscient. Omniscients have no practical use for beliefs as they already know the truth about everything. Hence, Jesus cannot be a “Christian” since the term describes someone who subscribes to a certain belief. On the other hand, the person of Jesus was born an ethnic Jew and is biologically locked into that state for the rest of eternity. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127/40 "2012-08-12T20:31:55Z")
> [@Mornac](#): > > As the Second Person of the Trinity, Jesus is God and by extension, omniscient. Jesus was not omniscient as a man though, surely? Didn’t he question a few things? I seem to remember a slight “Do I have to?” attitude to the whole crucifixion thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-die-a-christian/631127.md?page=3)