# Did Jesus really exist? And what's with the Shroud of Turin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 17, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353 "2014-04-17T17:14:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/162 "2022-10-16T00:35:58Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > > [@DPRK](#): > > > > The Church has orthodox beliefs and dogma, but who says it confuses sacred texts and mythology with historical chronicles and scientific exegeseis? > > If I understand your question correctly, many churches confuse sacred texts and mythology with historical chronicles by simply stating Jesus existed AND performed miracles, was resurrected, etc. These churches don’t even separate a historical Jesus from a biblical Jesus from what I’ve read. Scientific exegesis doesn’t come into play because Science can’t prove or disprove what someone claims happened 2000 years ago. There is no evidence to examine other than the document itself, which proves nothing. I was thinking of the thread about heliocentrism. The Church had certain positions about it (which Galileo got embroiled in, for various reasons) but it had no problem with scientific proof that the Earth revolved around the Sun. But you are surely right that history or science has nothing to do with scripture itself or what various churches say happened. > [@dolphinboy](#): > > It appears resurrection was a thing long before Jesus came into the picture (emphasis mine). I learn something new every day. Resurrection is evidently a pretty old-school religious concept: e.g. there is a 4000-year-old written version of a story that was already who knows how ancient even then describing Inanna’s descent into the underworld, where she is stripped of all her royal trappings and killed, the corpse hung on a hook. Then, after three days and three nights, her body is redeemed and she is revived. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/163 "2022-10-16T00:45:11Z")
In ancient Judaism, the phenomenon of people appearing to be dead, but then waking up was common enough, that, unless someone died by something like decapitation, they weren’t considered dead until they were 3 days dead. In other words, if someone couldn’t be awakened in the morning, or passed out and didn’t regain consciousness, they had to remain inert for 3 days before they could be entombed. How this practice eroded, what the Diaspora had to do with that, and what modern medicine did, are interesting, but long, and probably out of the scope of this thread. But it’s a tidbit that makes sense of the fact that everyone claims Jesus was dead for 3 days, when he was really dead for about 36 hours, if you follow the gospel timeline very strictly. Why he was removed from the cross, assuming this to be a true story, probably means he had someone influential among his followers, who insisted on removing him from the cross before Shabbat started. Since the Romans agreed he was dead, anyway. The 3 days vs. 36 hours is another thing that makes me think there is some real story back there. Not anything close to the gospel stories, but something. If there weren’t, then the embarrassing discrepancy between 3 days/36 hours probably wouldn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/164 "2022-10-16T00:58:38Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Resurrection is evidently a pretty old-school religious concept: e.g. there is a 4000-year-old written version of a story that was already who knows how ancient even then describing Inanna’s descent into the underworld, where she is stripped of all her royal trappings and killed, the corpse hung on a hook. The myth of Osiris is even older, and he was resurrected after being murdered by his brother, Set (interestingly, “Set” is also the name of the son Adam and Eve have after Cayin kills his brother Havel). ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/165 "2022-10-16T01:17:45Z")
“In the NT, only Jesus. And even that could be His spirit.” Dolphinboy said not counting biblical references, so you mention Jesus of the NT. You also forget Lazarus, who was supposedly dead for 4 days. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/166 "2022-10-16T01:55:17Z")
Thanks, PhilyGuy. I read your link and now know there is a broad schism between the two types of Baptists. I did some googling, but I can’t find out what the overall breakdown between fundamentalists and modernists is for all Christians if that even makes sense. But yes, I believe the evangelists I’ve seen on TV and the Christians I have spoken to, most, if not all of them, were probably fundamentalists concerning the resurrection. It would be interesting to talk with a modernist to see how far they really are from an atheist’s POV regarding the resurrection. It seems we can come up with speculation about what happened to Jesus that may have looked like a resurrection, but that’s just one small part of the Christian story that doesn’t add up. Virgin births don’t happen, miracles don’t happen, and people don’t magically ascend to the sky without the aid of wires. So even if someone says, yeah, you got me, the resurrection probably didn’t happen, that doesn’t change that much for me. It’s just one brick in a wall of tall tales that I believe are untrue, and don’t get me started on the Old Testament… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/167 "2022-10-16T12:32:45Z")
**Modnote** : > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > There’s no point in arguing this with @DrDeth. It’s been argued before and no matter how many papers and cites you provide, it’ll not move them one little bit. John the disciple wrote the gospel, as far as DrD is concerned. **Please remember, arguing the content of posts is allowed and encouraged, commenting negatively about another poster is not allowed outside of the Pit.** > [@DrDeth](#): > > Read some history. And instead of just asking questions- contribute your thoughts and opinions. > [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s it- no more _Just Asking Questions._ > [@DrDeth](#): > > If your style of debate is Just Asking Questions, then of course you will demand cites for silly things. instead of contributing your own cites and opinions. Same note to you. Especially where you’re implying trolling. Now please carry on without further flags in this thread I hope. _The normal Mods for this forum have been unavailable since these flags came in._ ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/168 "2022-10-19T13:11:39Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Why he was removed from the cross, assuming this to be a true story, probably means he had someone influential among his followers, who insisted on removing him from the cross before Shabbat started. Since the Romans agreed he was dead, anyway In the Christian legendarium, Jesus’ tomb was provided by a wealthy follower named Joseph of Arimathea. The story goes on to say that Joseph later received the Holy Grail from an apparition of Jesus, and sent it to Britain, or possibly traveled there himself, so there’s obviously some mythologizing at work; but it’s possible that an influential follower might have arranged for the cadaver to be brought down off the cross (assuming that there’s a nugget or behind the Gospels, of course). ---
**Author:** ![autish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@autish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/autish)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/169 "2022-11-06T23:19:14Z")
True. If we are debating whether there was a person named Jesus who lived and did some of the mundane things mentioned in the Bible, then the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If we are to believe the supernatural claims in the Bible and this is literally one of the most important things that has ever occured in the history of humankind then the absence of evidence would, it would seem to me, to be evidence of absence - the absence here being the contemporaneous consideration of Jesus being in any way important. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/170 "2022-11-06T23:29:01Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > In the Christian legendarium, Jesus’ tomb was provided by a wealthy follower named Joseph of Arimathea. The story goes on to say that Joseph later received the Holy Grail from an apparition of Jesus, and sent it to Britain, or possibly traveled there himself, so there’s obviously some mythologizing at work; but it’s possible that an influential follower might have arranged for the cadaver to be brought down off the cross (assuming that there’s a nugget or > behind the Gospels, of course). Then Joseph of Arimathea took it to the castle of A-a-a-_argh_ ? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/171 "2022-11-25T03:24:06Z")
> [@autish](#): > > If we are to believe the supernatural claims in the Bible and this is literally one of the most important things that has ever occured in the history of humankind then the absence of evidence would, it would seem to me, to be evidence of absence - the absence here being the contemporaneous consideration of Jesus being in any way important. Precisely my earlier point, with the argument coming back that things happened in the ancient world that were never recorded, which is inarguably true. However, it’s fair to say that it was uncommon for people to have a virgin birth, to perform public miracles, to be resurrected after being crucified, and then to ascend up into the sky. If any of that had happened, people would have noted it, and something would have survived besides simply hearsay and rumor. The lack of ANY contemporaneous writings to back up these stories tells me they didn’t happen. I’m still waiting for someone to provide a preponderance of evidence that it happened, or at least proof beyond a reasonable doubt. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/172 "2022-11-25T17:00:46Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > The lack of ANY contemporaneous writings to back up these stories tells me they didn’t happen. One could argue that literacy was very much not widespread before the 20th century CE. The people who could write about the events were a vanishing fraction of the people who could have possibly been witnesses – in fact, it appears that the christ himself was illiterate, as he is never known to have written anything down (just like Moses). Hence, hearsay is really all there could be. The evidence suggests that the 13 guys were a sort of traveling medicine show, extracting a living from the locals by peddling the ancient equivalent of snake oil. Hence, they were really not inclined to try to attract educated types to their presentations. The likelihood of first person witnesses who could write about those things (without being embarrassed about being duped) is all but nil. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/173 "2022-11-25T17:05:08Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > – in fact, it appears that the christ himself was illiterate, as he is never known to have written anything down (just like Moses). There’s only one mention of Jesus writing in the Bible, and in context, a better translation might be “doodling”. But there are multiple mentions of him reading. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/174 "2022-11-25T21:18:30Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > – in fact, it appears that the christ himself was illiterate, as he is never known to have written anything down (just like Moses). How could we possibly know that? I’m told little to nothing survived from that period. He could have been a prolific writer, many people who preach are. The point is we can’t say what he was or wasn’t, because nobody bothered to write it down at the time. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/175 "2022-11-25T21:27:42Z")
> [@autish](#): > > True. If we are debating whether there was a person named Jesus who lived and did some of the mundane things mentioned in the Bible, then the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There is evidence, and quite a bit for that period and a person of his standing. > [@eschereal](#): > > One could argue that literacy was very much not widespread before the 20th century CE. The people who could write about the events were a vanishing fraction of the people who could have possibly been witnesses – in fact, it appears that the christ himself was illiterate, as he is never known to have written anything down (just like Moses). Hence, hearsay is really all there could be. Jesus wrote in the dirt once, and could sorta read. Likely he had a little of what we would call “Hebrew school” , but by today’s standards he would be considered “functionally illiterate” is my guess. From all the graffiti it is obvious that a lot of people could read and write- a little- as least to the extent of “Brutus sucks it” . But yeah, being able to write down a history of an event was not at all common. > [@eschereal](#): > > The likelihood of first person witnesses who could write about those things (without being embarrassed about being duped) is all but nil. One of them was a Tax collector. And at least one person collected some of Jesus’s saying etc, what is now called “Q” . John, much much later either learned to read and write or more likely he had followers who could do so. (it is not hard to believe a young man could learn a lot in another 6 or 7 decades) ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/176 "2022-11-25T22:20:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There is evidence, and quite a bit for that period and a person of his standing. Please, show us all of the contemporaneous evidence, and the gospels are not evidence since most are not contemporaneous and could have easily been made up. ---
**Author:** ![alllllz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b77776/32.png) [@alllllz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alllllz)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/177 "2022-11-25T22:56:00Z")
i have questioned his existence. I have read an article, a couple years ago, that said they unearthed some box or something with the name inscribed of one of Jesus’s brothers. this to me was some hard evidence, IF it is true. how can I prove archaeological discoveries that I haven’t seen in person, nor studied in-depth myself? question everything, is my motto. I have heard the shroud is a fake, but again, how can I know? the bible, if it is to be considered a trustworthy source, says that when the empty tomb was seen, his grave dressings were sitting there. I don’t remember if it said someone took them out or what. if he rose after 3 days then that is a miracle. miraculous things happen today but nothing like that, that I’ve seen. I believe in the old testament but I question the new one. it seems legit when I read the whole bible cover to cover. but questions arise, for sure. I just figure, if the Jews won’t give up their faith, maybe they are right, since I agree with the old testament, which is their holy scripture. but what if they really were just that stubborn and didn’t want to let go of their rituals that they felt brought them god’s favor? accepting Jesus would mean taking actual responsibility for their sins, and not depending on animal sacrifices etc for atonement. so maybe they were willfully ignorant, if Jesus was real? lots of questions. I too wonder why there is so little ancient writing about Jesus, outside the bible. but if you find really old bibles- like mine from around 1870- they do list times that people originally wrote the stories of Jesus. its just strange to me that none of these writings seem to be within even 50 years of his life. so , again, lots of questions. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/178 "2022-11-25T23:14:59Z")
> [@alllllz](#): > > its just strange to me that none of these writings seem to be within even 50 years of his life. Paul’s are. With that said, this seems to be a uniquely American debate.I rarely, if ever, see it in Euro media. American non-believer: Jesus wasn’t the son of God. God doesn’t exist so Jesus didn’t either. Euro non-believer: Jesus wasn’t the son of God. God doesn’t exist. But everything points to a wandering preacher, one of many, walking around in 1st century Palestine, warning that THE END IS NEAR. Paul did a lot of ret-conning, for whatever reason, and started a new religion. But for him, the disciples of Jerusalem would’ve been forgotten by now. Paul’s method and rules for conversion was a lot more successful than James the Just’s. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/179 "2022-11-26T00:50:54Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Please, show us all of the contemporaneous evidence, and the gospels are not evidence since most are not contemporaneous and could have easily been made up. Anything could be made up, and hardly any histories are contemporaneous, Q is likely contemporaneous. They likely didn’t need to write a Gospel since Q was around and people still had their memories. But we have covered this before, and I linked to several, even here in this thread. Josephus is the best- Antiquities of the Jews= _Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin]of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned:_ and - Tacitus, in his _[Annals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annals_(Tacitus))_ (written c. AD 115), [book 15, chapter 44](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Annals_(Tacitus)/Book_15#44),[[57]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-62) describes [Nero](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero)’s [scapegoating](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoating) of the Christians following the [Fire of Rome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_of_Rome). He writes that the founder of the sect was named Christus (the Christian title for Jesus); that he was executed under [Pontius Pilate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate); and that the movement, initially checked, broke out again in [Judea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea) and even in Rome itself.[[58]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEEddy2007179%E2%80%93180-63) The scholarly consensus is that Tacitus’ reference to the execution of [Jesus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus) by [Pontius Pilate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate) is both authentic and of historical value as an independent Roman source.[[59]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEEvans200142-64)[[60]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Bible'_page_343-65)[[61]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-ReferenceA-66) > [@alllllz](#): > > I have read an article, a couple years ago, that said they unearthed some box or something with the name inscribed of one of Jesus’s brothers. this to me was some hard evidence, IF it is true. The Ossuary did have the name of James on it, and it was the proper age. Sadly, “James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus” might not be the Jesus the Messiah, and the inscription is disputed. It is only a maybe. > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > With that said, this seems to be a uniquely American debate.I rarely, if ever, see it in Euro media. > > American non-believer: > Jesus wasn’t the son of God. God doesn’t exist so Jesus didn’t either. > > Euro non-believer: > Jesus wasn’t the son of God. God doesn’t exist. But everything points to a wandering preacher, one of many, walking around in 1st century Palestine, warning that THE END IS NEAR. Paul did a lot of ret-conning, for whatever reason, and started a new religion. But for him, the disciples of Jerusalem would’ve been forgotten by now. Paul’s method and rules for conversion was a lot more successful than James the Just’s. Yeah, that about sums it up. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/180 "2022-11-26T03:01:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Anything could be made up, and hardly any histories are contemporaneous, Alas, unless there’s proof from the time that something happened, and not 100 years later, it’s simply hearsay and rumor and not proof. We know Brutus assassinated Julius Caesar because witnesses who were there told other people who documented it at the time. That’s called creating a historical record. According to [this](http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/miracles.htm), there were 40 miracles attributed to Jesus in the Bible. You can read about each one, but I’ve listed them below. It’s quite an impressive list of miracles. Do you believe nobody would have bothered to note if someone performed even a handful of these miracles? Not everyone was illiterate; indeed, the Romans would have been interested in someone performing these miracles since it’s never happened before or since. Some of them, such as “changing water into wine” or “walking on water,” could have been clever tricks, but healing a leper and resurrecting someone who is truly dead is no parlor trick. If Jesus did these things, they would have been recorded for history by someone; if he didn’t, there would be no trace of them ever happening unless someone made up a story years later. 1. Born to a virgin 2. Changing water into wine 3. Healing of the royal official’s son 4. Healing of the Capernaum demoniac 5. Healing of Peter’s mother-in-law 6. Healing the sick during the evening 7. Catching a large number of fish 8. Healing a leper 9. Healing a centurion’s servant 10. Healing a paralyzed man 11. Healing a withered hand 12. Raising a widow’s son 13. Calming the storm 14. Healing the Gerasene man possessed by demons 15. Healing a woman with internal bleeding 16. Raising Jairus’ daughter 17. Healing two blind men 18. Healing a mute demon-possessed man 19. Healing a 38-year invalid 20. Feeding 5,000 men and their families 21. Walking on water 22. Healing of many people in Gennesaret 23. Healing a girl possessed by a demon 24. Healing a deaf man with a speech impediment 25. Feeding 4,000 men and their families 26. Healing a blind man 27. Healing a man born blind 28. Healing a demon-possessed boy 29. Catching a fish with a coin in its mouth 30. Healing a blind and mute man who was demon-possessed 31. Healing a woman with an 18-year infirmity 32. Healing a man with dropsy 33. Healing 10 lepers 34. Raising of Lazarus 35. Healing Bartimaeus of blindness 36. Cursing the fig tree with no fruit 37. Restoring a severed ear 38. The resurrection of Jesus 39. Catching 153 fish 40. The ascension of Jesus ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353/181 "2022-11-26T03:56:39Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > We know Brutus assassinated Julius Caesar because witnesses who were there told other people who documented it at the time. Aside from Cicero, what contemporary accounts of Caesar’s assassination survive? The account of Nicholas of Damascus, e.g., was written decades later (and survives only because it was quoted in one of the surviving volumes of the Constantinian Excerpts). Suetonius and Plutarch wrote even later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin/686353.md?page=10)