# Did John McClane (a police officer) have an obligation to intervene? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015 "2016-12-18T01:20:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/1 "2016-12-18T01:20:25Z")
Inspired by ‘Die Hard’, but I’m asking about in a reality, i.e. a real police officer. In the movie after John kills one of the terrorists, Ellis remarks “What’s he doing?” and Holly says “His job.” Ellies replies “His job is 3000 miles away.” So who is correct? Is John doing his job? Or is he out of his jurisdiction? Furthermore, could he actually get in trouble for doing what he did out of his jurisdiction (let’s ignore for the moment blowing up the building)? On a similar note, earlier Ellis is doing coke. John remarks “You missed some.” Could John have arrested him? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/2 "2016-12-18T06:13:45Z")
I’ve been on the job since 1982 (did 25 years, retired with pension, started another career with a different agency, eligible or a 2nd pension in 2022). Though via federal law I can carry a handgun in all 50 states and territories, but other than that I have ZERO law enforcement power outside of the state of Wisconsin. A [stupid] acquaintance of mine took some action once while on vacation out of state. He was actually charged with impersonating. The charges were eventually dropped but it cost him a bit. Tard! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/3 "2016-12-18T11:24:08Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Though via federal law I can carry a handgun in all 50 states and territories, but other than that I have ZERO law enforcement power outside of the state of Wisconsin. Would it be more accurate to say that you have the same law enforcement power as any other citizen? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/4 "2016-12-19T00:37:41Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Would it be more accurate to say that you have the same law enforcement power as any other citizen? It’s possible there is a state that grants off duty officers from out of state authority, but I don’t know of any. Other than a self defense situation I wouldn’t take action anyway off duty out of state. If you are inferring citizens arrest I wouldn’t do it unless there was a danger factor. But I never carry cuffs on vacation. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/5 "2016-12-19T02:24:09Z")
Thanks for the answer pkbites. Although I have to admit to being disappointed that Ellis is right. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ASGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@ASGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/6 "2016-12-19T02:49:12Z")
I’m going to respond to the _topic_ inquiry of the OP. **Did John McClane (a police officer) have an obligation to intervene?** I am not a member of law enforcement and in fact have little knowledge of the jurisdictional aspects of it. Nevertheless, I would suspect that as a sworn police officer John McClane _was_ obligated to intervene. As a sworn officer he saw [serious] violations of the law. As such, even in the role as citizen, could apprehend and make a citizens arrest. I will immediately concede that if McClane started shooting people things start to go wonky. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/7 "2016-12-19T04:02:12Z")
Well, McClane is stuck in the building and tries to summon the authorities by using the fire alarm, but gets attacked then tries a radio and is attacked again. He went on the offensive later but one might argue that he was drawn into the situation out of self defense, not a desire to intervene. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/8 "2016-12-19T10:10:23Z")
> [@ASGuy](#): > > I would suspect that as a sworn police officer John McClane _was_ obligated to intervene. > > As a sworn officer he saw [serious] violations of the law. As such, even in the role as citizen, could apprehend and make a citizens arrest. He would not have been legally obligated. He had no lawful authority and a private citizen is not obligated to act in a case like that. It’s Die Hard not the last episode of Seinfeld ;). I don’t even have to act while off duty in my own jurisdiction. Unless there is a self defense/defense of others situation the brass would rather we didn’t. I had a Captain who would routinely joke: What do you call an off duty cop at a crime scene? A witness. ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/9 "2016-12-19T15:12:30Z")
I have a friend who’s a Special Constable in London. These are volunteer cops who do one or two shifts a month for free. They do get an Oyster card that gives them free public transport travel in London though. They are allowed to use that for personal travel while off duty, but there is small print that states they are expected to step up if anything happens while they are travelling. But her Sargeant reminds them all on a regular basis that it really isn’t worth the risk if you’re not in uniform and not carrying truncheon and cuffs. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/10 "2016-12-19T15:38:09Z")
He was trying to save the life of his spouse. I think anyone would do that. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/11 "2016-12-19T15:41:19Z")
Not only is he killing all those people, in the end, in the confusion, his limo comes speeding up, and McClane gets in the car and just rides off. _That’s_ got to be against procedure. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/12 "2016-12-19T23:30:46Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > He was trying to save the life of his spouse. I think anyone would do that. I dunno, a lot of people might not. “I got $1 million in bearer bonds for my wife. What a trade!” > [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Not only is he killing all those people, in the end, in the confusion, his limo comes speeding up, and McClane gets in the car and just rides off. _That’s_ got to be against procedure. Cool cops don’t do paperwork. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/13 "2016-12-20T07:58:02Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Cool cops don’t do paperwork. Around here a police officer doesn’t do his own report when he’s involved in a shooting. He’s interviewed by investigators from a different agency and they do the report based on his/her statements. This is not just policy it’s actually the law in Wisconsin. So if I OC someone I have to do a long use of force report. If I shoot them I have very little paperwork to do. I eagerly await smart ass anti-cop responses to that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/14 "2016-12-20T09:12:16Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Cool cops don’t do paperwork. Never seen _Hot Fuzz_, have you? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/15 "2016-12-21T15:40:23Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Around here a police officer doesn’t do his own report when he’s involved in a shooting. He’s interviewed by investigators from a different agency and they do the report based on his/her statements. This is not just policy it’s actually the law in Wisconsin. > > So if I OC someone I have to do a long use of force report. If I shoot them I have very little paperwork to do. I eagerly await smart ass anti-cop responses to that. 😉 I read once that there’s reams of paperwork for Toronto (or Ontario?) police just for drawing their weapon. But then, a Toronto cop was recently convicted for shooting a suspect while he was down - that is, down because the cop had already shot him. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/16 "2016-12-21T16:27:12Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Never seen _Hot Fuzz_, have you? > [@Nicholas Angel](#): > > Well, I wouldn’t argue that it wasn’t a no-holds-barred, adrenaline-fueled thrill ride. But there is no way you can perpetrate that amount of carnage and mayhem and not incur a considerable amount of paperwork. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/17 "2016-12-21T17:45:53Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > It’s possible there is a state that grants off duty officers from out of state authority, but I don’t know of any. Other than a self defense situation I wouldn’t take action anyway off duty out of state. If you are inferring citizens arrest I wouldn’t do it unless there was a danger factor. But I never carry cuffs on vacation. I understand why you wouldn’t want to work off the clock, especially on vacation, but you might be selling yourself short. I was arrested once by an officer out of his jurisdiction, and my lawyer told me there was no defense there because any ordinary citizen would have had the same right to arrest me. And cops don’t get _fewer_ rights than an ordinary citizen just because they are out of their jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/18 "2016-12-21T18:39:15Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > So if I OC someone I have to do a long use of force report. If I shoot them I have very little paperwork to do. I eagerly await smart ass anti-cop responses to that. 😉 OC? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/19 "2016-12-21T19:36:36Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > OC? i’m guessing ‘officially charge’ ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015/20 "2016-12-21T19:56:56Z")
pkbites is right about a travelling police officer’s obligations when he’s out of state. I’m not surprised that he wouldn’t want to intervene when he’s off duty, unequipped, and longer than a radio call away from backup. > [@pkbites](#): > > Around here a police officer doesn’t do his own report when he’s involved in a shooting. He’s interviewed by investigators from a different agency and they do the report based on his/her statements. This is not just policy it’s actually the law in Wisconsin. > > So if I OC someone I have to do a long use of force report. If I shoot them I have very little paperwork to do. I eagerly await smart ass anti-cop responses to that. 😉 That’s a really good use of force policy. More agencies should adopt something similar even if the law doesn’t require it. > [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > OC? I think he meant oleoresin capsicum (pepper spray). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-john-mcclane-a-police-officer-have-an-obligation-to-intervene/775015.md?page=2)