# Did Karl Rove out the CIA Agent?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [July 2, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791 "2005-07-02T03:04:39Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Rev\_Bloodytoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rev_Bloodytoe)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/1 "2005-07-02T03:04:39Z")
Did ROVEr out that Plume lady? If he did when do we see that fucker go to jail?
-Bloodytoe
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/2 "2005-07-02T03:06:58Z")
Even if he’s involved I doubt he’d be stupid enough to do it himself. In which case ‘we’ don’t.
And it’s Rove.
And Plame.
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### Author:  [@Rev\_Bloodytoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rev_Bloodytoe)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/3 "2005-07-02T03:10:45Z")
Sorry I can’t spell or type even on the best of days.
-Bloodytoe
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/4 "2005-07-02T04:12:40Z")
Before the investigation went submarine last fall, the hottest suspect was Lewis “Scooter” Libby, Dick Cheney’s chief of staff.
[Libby is still a person of interest:](http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0527,schanberg,65541,6.html)
> [@](#):
>
> Cooper has already identified one of his sources, I. Lewis Libby, chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney. Libby freed Cooper from his promise of confidentiality.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/5 "2005-07-02T04:35:24Z")
**Then Again:**
> [@](#):
>
> Tonight (July 1), on the syndicated McLaughlin Group political talk show, Lawrence O’Donnell, senior MSNBC political analyst, claimed to know that name–and it is, according to him, top White House mastermind Karl Rove.
[MSNBC Analyst Says Cooper Documents Reveal Karl Rove as Source in Plame Case](http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000972839)
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/6 "2005-07-02T04:38:37Z")
There are rumors that Robert “Douchebag” Novak might very well be in line for a stern talking to!
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/7 "2005-07-02T06:39:06Z")
I’ve heard that’s why TIME is cooperating–it’s part of the case against Novak.
Rove is too smart to get caught. Scooter is falling on his sword like a good boy.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/8 "2005-07-02T07:26:44Z")
George W. Bush’s pet name for Rove is “Turd Blossom.” I guess Bush knows where he comes from.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/9 "2005-07-02T09:21:56Z")
Frankly, I doubt Rove had any involvement. He is the pimp, GeeDubya the whore. His concern is marketing lies and bullshit, not the foreign policy results of lies and bullshit. He is unlikely to have had a “need to know” regarding Ms. Plame’s operational status, so he wouldn’t have found out about it in the normal course of events, unless someone just casually remarked over the water cooler “Say, Karl, whaddaya think about Val Plame, the undercover CIA agent? She hot, or what?”
John Bolton, on the other hand, with his long time association with arms control issues, might very well have such an occassion. Which has led to dastardly speculation by those scurrilous Dems that such is precisely why the WH is so anxious to keep certain documents out of The Wrong Hands.
IIRC, Mr. Libby’s name came up almost instantly when the scandal first broke. Seems to have taken investigators an amazingly long time to focus on the obvious, no? Unless, of course, they…no, no, The Leader has assured us that he is intent on rooting out the miscreant, and in Mr. Libby’s case, that would have required nothing more than a phone call and a direct question. Nope, can’t be him.
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### Author:  [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/10 "2005-07-02T13:56:30Z")
[MSNBC is reporting that Rove is the guy](http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000972839)
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### Author:  [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/11 "2005-07-02T13:58:07Z")
OK, now I get to do the mea culpa for not reading the friggin’ thread. I need more than three hours of sleep, I think.
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### Author:  [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/12 "2005-07-02T14:01:17Z")
If this is true, Rove is toast. Felony for outing the CIA agent, plus perjury. I’ve been refraining from discussing this so far because it only seems to be reported on “editor and publisher”.
Anyone know anything about that outfit? You’d think major news organizations would have picked this up by now if it were legit. I’m starting to doubt this story by the hour. I suppose we’ll know one way or another before the day is out.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/13 "2005-07-02T14:35:08Z")
> [@zuma](#):
>
> Anyone know anything about that outfit? You’d think major news organizations would have picked this up by now if it were legit.
As the [front page says](http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/index.jsp) E&P is “America’s Oldest Journal Covering the Newspaper Industry”
[Wikipedia on E&P](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editor_and_Publisher_Magazine)
> [@](#):
>
> E&P was purchased in 1999 by BPI Communications, a division of VNU Business Media. VNU Media also publishes the following media-related magazines: Adweek, Mediaweek, Brandweek, Sales & Marketing Management, and [DNonline.com](http://DNonline.com). E&P switched from weekly to monthly publication in January 2004.
> While generally maintaining journalistic objectivity when covering the newspaper industry, E&P has been considered to represent the viewpoints and biases of newspaper owners, from private owners of single nwspapers to public corporations which own large chains of newspapers.
I’ve never noticed them making shit up.
The major news orgs haven’t picked up on the story because it’s still at the level of “some guy said”. He said it on a big show, but still…
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### Author:  [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/14 "2005-07-02T14:38:10Z")
If they do charge him, what will they charge him with?
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### Author:  [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/15 "2005-07-02T14:38:46Z")
> [@zuma](#):
>
> If this is true, Rove is toast. Felony for outing the CIA agent, plus perjury.
Have you not been paying attention over the last five years? Do you really think anyone of consequence is going to be keelhauled for this?
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/16 "2005-07-02T14:46:57Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald has stated in court pleadings that he already knows the identity of Judith Miller and Matthew Cooper’s sources
> …
> So, why is it so necessary for them to provide the information?
>
> As the Wapo article suggests, the investigation has moved from one involving the identity of the White House official to one involving perjury - i.e., a cover-up. The source may have been questioned in front of the grand jury and lied.
[http://talkleft.com/new\_archives/011281.html](http://talkleft.com/new_archives/011281.html)
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/17 "2005-07-02T15:03:45Z")
Rove may not be all that consequential. After all, he is a pimp/consultant, he can be shuffled off to a polite sinecure at, say, the Heritage Foundation or American Enterprise, where he would be employed to theorize about viable Republican political tactics. If it should come about that those are precisely the tactics employed, well, great minds think alike, and coincidence is common, is it not?
And the scandal? Piffle. Gone in a day, two at the outside. And the sacrifice of principle and dignity? Even less.
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### Author:  [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/18 "2005-07-02T15:26:26Z")
And Watergate was just a third-rate burglery. No consequences came of it, it’s all been rightly forgotten.
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### Author:  [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/19 "2005-07-02T15:30:23Z")
If my understanding was correct when I read about this the first time, the person who committed the actual crime was the person who had the clearance and need to have this information who passed it to someone who didn’t.
Rove’s title is something like Special Advisor to the President, and as such I doubt he has the security clearance to have had this information. So while he may have given it to the reporters, it may not have been illegal for him to do so; rather, it would have been whoever told Rove (or whoever told him, or wherever up the line it was).
Of course, he may have perjured himself, and we know that the right-wingers consider perjury to be the worst crime a person can commit, worthy of total and eternal vilification, so we’ll be hearing such condemnation of Rove from the right as soon as that information comes out.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/20 "2005-07-02T15:41:26Z")
…[crickets chirping]…
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