# Did Karl Rove out the CIA Agent? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791 "2005-07-02T03:04:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/321 "2005-07-11T23:59:40Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > The President has set high standards, the highest of standards for people in his administration. He’s made it very clear to people in his administration that he expects them to adhere to the highest standards of conduct. If anyone in this administration was involved in it, they would no longer be in this administration. > > If we had even remotely competent media, this quote would be all over every news source from now until Rove was bounced out on his ass. But **DoctorJ** (and **Squink** ), don’t you see? This proves Rove _couldn’t_ be the culprit. If he had done something illegal or unethical, he wouldn’t be part of the administration anymore! Since he is, he must be innocent! QED! [Gumby]Doctor! My brain hurts![/Gumby] ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/322 "2005-07-12T00:29:57Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Finally On Fox: > [White House Mum on Rove Role in CIA Leak](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162161,00.html) I don’t go to their web site, but I do watch Brit Hume most days, and he’s been discussing it since mid last week at least. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/323 "2005-07-12T00:39:01Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > The maladroitness of the White House PR response today tends to support that notion, You mean the long ass “interview” that didn’t say a damn thing? What a waste of time it was to actually read that drivel. His whole position was “I ani’t saying nothing and you can’t make me”. I noticed that towards the end, McClellan tried to spin it into the usual bloviation about “war against terror” and not so subtle hints about “patriotism”. I wanted to reach through my monitor and punch him like a motherfucker. > [@PatriotX](#): > > “From everything I’m reading, I don’t think Karl Rove mentioned Valerie Plame’s name. I think that he mentioned Wilson’s wife. It looks like Rove was trying to warn TIME Magazine: You’re barking up the wrong tree.” It doesn’t matter. If I say “Wilson’s wife the CIA lady” then it’s obvious who I mean. Hanging onto the “I didn’t speak her name” is a ridiculous dodge. If he gets off with that, I will be even more disgusted than I already am. ---
**Author:** ![rexnervous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@rexnervous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexnervous)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/324 "2005-07-12T00:55:02Z")
Haven’t read the whole thread, but who else thinks that within the next two weeks or so Rove will resign, saying something to the effect that “the unfortunate, and liberally unpatriotic, focus on an ongoing investigation seems to be severely hampering the Administration’s noble war on terrorism and freedom, and thus to not distract our noble and freedom-loving goals, I hereby resign from my position as Deputy Chief of Staff.” And that Rove will get some cushy job in the private arena, no doubt a think-tank, and will still enjoy the same access and power as he’s always had. Any takers? ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/325 "2005-07-12T01:23:12Z")
> [@](#): > > From everything I’m reading, I don’t think Karl Rove mentioned Valerie Plame’s name. I think that he mentioned Wilson’s wife. I can’t believe that adults–presumably adults with the language skills to assemble words into sentences–actually advanced this argument, and it’s even harder to believe that other adults buy into it. What if Rove had said her name in Pig Latin? Would it be okay to say that “Alerievay Ameplay” worked for the CIA? What if he said it was Valerie Plame, but he didn’t specify that it was Valerie _Michelle_ Plame (or whatever her middle name is)? Would he be in the clear? This is just insulting. I’m having a hard time anymore respecting anyone who still supports these goons. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/326 "2005-07-12T01:27:51Z")
Much as I’d love to be wrong, I can’t see this whole thing being so much as a bump in the road for the Bush admin. They started a war which has so far consumed billions of dollars and killed over a thousand US citizens (and some towelheads, I guess) based on false information. The end result of that scandal is that Bush is still in, he’s still popular, and an astonishing proportion of the US hoi polloi [don’t even know was ever anything to be scandalized about](http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/Report10_21_04.pdf). If the Bushistas can steam the ship of state through that one, this one is but a ripple on the water to a battleship. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/327 "2005-07-12T01:55:51Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > [http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050711-3.html](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050711-3.html) Hee hee! The sharks have rediscovered their teeth. One unexpected question is worth highlighting, though: > [@](#): > > Considering the widespread interest and the absolutely frantic Democrat reaction to Karl Rove’s excellent speech to conservatives last month, does the President hope that Karl will give a lot more speeches? I thought Guckert wasn’t doing these any more. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/328 "2005-07-12T02:08:46Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It doesn’t matter. If I say “Wilson’s wife the CIA lady” then it’s obvious who I mean. Hanging onto the “I didn’t speak her name” is a ridiculous dodge. If he gets off with that, I will be even more disgusted than I already am. I’d just like to point out, ftr, that the way you structured your post mis-attributes Rush Limbaugh’s remarks to me. **This is most foul.** Please, in the future take a moment longer and properly assign blame where it’s due. Thanks, Simon W. “not Rush” Moon > [@DoctorJ](#): > > I can’t believe that adults–presumably adults with the language skills to assemble words into sentences–actually advanced this argument, and it’s even harder to believe that other adults buy into it. What you, and most people are missing is that Rush makes fun of his listeners mercilessly. I am totally serious about this. Give it a try. Listen to him tomorrow. This Straussian interpretation is dead on. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/329 "2005-07-12T02:12:09Z")
> [@rexnervous](#): > > Haven’t read the whole thread, but who else thinks that within the next two weeks or so Rove will resign, saying something to the effect that I will risk banning here and say I hope the bastard has a massive coronary and falls over. > [@rexnervous](#): > > “the unfortunate, and liberally unpatriotic, focus on an ongoing investigation seems to be severely hampering the Administration’s noble war on terrorism **and** freedom, and thus to not distract our noble and freedom-loving goals, I hereby resign from my position as Deputy Chief of Staff.” So much for the noble war on terrorism and freedom (AND freedom???). That sounds about right for this bunch. So much for uniting with our allies in this “noble cause”. Instead of helping Britain sort through the mess and maybe look for survivors, our troops are now ordered to not get involved. > [@](#): > > All 12,000 members of the U.S. Air Force stationed in Britain have been banned from visiting London because of last week’s bombings, newspapers reported on Tuesday, and one daily slammed the decision as “timid.” > > American military chiefs issued the “battle staff directive” on Friday, a day after bombs on three underground trains and a double-decker bus killed at least 52 people, The Daily Telegraph and The Times newspapers reported. A U.S. spokeswoman was quoted as saying that military staff were not allowed to go anywhere inside the M25 orbital motorway belt surrounding the capital until further notice, “because the security of our people is our top concern.” … > > The Daily Mail newspaper slammed the U.S. military ban as “timid” coming after President Bush’s pledge last week that Britons could count on America to stand with them ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/330 "2005-07-12T02:15:19Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > I’d just like to point out, ftr, that the way you structured your post mis-attributes Rush Limbaugh’s remarks to me. > **This is most foul.** > Please, in the future take a moment longer and properly assign blame where it’s due. > > Thanks, > > Simon W. “not Rush” Moon I sometimes fail to get the right structure, in my rush to get the words down before I lose the train of thought. Oooooh! Shiny! Oh! If you took my remarks as an attack on you, it was not meant that way. But, I can easily imagine Rush saying something like this. I stopped listening to him not too long ago - when he was “outed” as a druggy and was simultaneously making fun of Gitmo torture accusations. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/331 "2005-07-12T02:31:12Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > But, I can easily imagine Rush saying something like this. Perhaps that’s because, as **PatriotX** linked, [that’s exactly what Limbaugh said.](http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_071105/content/quotes.guest.html) Of course, last week [Rush said:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6334279&highlight=rush#post6334279) > [@](#): > > Let me say one thing about this Karl Rove business. Let me tell you how I know. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Rove is not the leaker. If Karl Rove were the leaker to Matthew Cooper of TIME Magazine, do you think they’d have kept that news private during the 2004 presidential campaign? This leak occurred in 2003. If Karl Rove engaged in criminal activity, do you not think that the media – who claimed to know it all now – would have not released that information during the campaign, given it to John Kerry… LaRouche Weighs In: [The Plame Affair: Rove and Cheney Are Guilty As Charged](http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2005/3228rove_cheney_plame.html) Thanks for the Brit Hume/Fox TV update **John Mace**. So the story broke for Fox watchers last wednesday, rather today on their website. It was getting kind of ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/332 "2005-07-12T02:31:28Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > What you, and most people are missing is that Rush makes fun of his listeners mercilessly. I am totally serious about this. Give it a try. Listen to him tomorrow. > This Straussian interpretation is dead on. Bullshit. I’m exposed to his garbage on a weekly basis and he does no such thing. This is not the first time I’ve seen this claim. The last time it was probably by you, too. Go ahead and feel free to back it up. Go for, say, three examples. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/333 "2005-07-12T03:02:17Z")
Re: posts 319 and 323 Post 319 your post - > [@](#): > > I’ve still not been emailed my talking points. > > However, here’s this from Mr. Limbaugh: > “From everything I’m reading, I don’t think Karl Rove mentioned Valerie Plame’s name. I think that he mentioned Wilson’s wife. It looks like Rove was trying to warn TIME Magazine: You’re barking up the wrong tree.” Post 323 my reply - > [@](#): > > It doesn’t matter. If I say “Wilson’s wife the CIA lady” then it’s obvious who I mean. Hanging onto the “I didn’t speak her name” is a ridiculous dodge. If he gets off with that, I will be even more disgusted than I already am. Post 328 – > [@](#): > > I’d just like to point out, ftr, that the way you structured your post mis-attributes Rush Limbaugh’s remarks to me. > This is most foul. > Please, in the future take a moment longer and properly assign blame where it’s due. Looking back, it seems I was replying to Limbaugh’s words, not yours. I believe that was my intent at the time (it still is). So, how can I have been attacking you? Post 331 – > [@](#): > > Perhaps that’s because, as PatriotX linked, that’s exactly what Limbaugh said. So then, I was responding to a “Rushism” then, wasn’t I. Merijeek, would you agree with me if I were to say that Rush Limbaugh is not only an appalling hypocrite but that he is also a damn liar? I won’t listen to him anymore. He is a boil on the ass lips of humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/334 "2005-07-12T05:21:32Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Looking back, it seems I was replying to Limbaugh’s words, not yours. I believe that was my intent at the time (it still is). So, how can I have been attacking you? Look at your post #323 where you have a quote labeled “Originally Posted by **PatriotX**.” The words inside that quote are Rush Limbaugh’s, NOT **PatriotX** ’s. Why did you attribute those words to the wrong person? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Highwayman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Highwayman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Highwayman)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/335 "2005-07-12T05:59:16Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > Whenever I read transcripts of McClellan’s responses I can’t help but be reminded of the scene toward the end of “Animal House,” where the ROTC cadet is standing on the street, being run over by the rioting crowd, all the while screaming “ALL IS WELL! BE CALM!! ALL IS WELL!!” What comes to mind from that movie was “BLOW JOB! BLOW JOB!”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/336 "2005-07-12T06:19:49Z")
“I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody’s part.” ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/337 "2005-07-12T09:48:02Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Bullshit. > > I’m exposed to his garbage on a weekly basis and he does no such thing. > > This is not the first time I’ve seen this claim. The last time it was probably by you, too. > > Go ahead and feel free to back it up. Go for, say, three examples. > > -Joe Sometime maybe. It’d mean monitoring his show and recording it so I can generate a transcript. I’m not in a hurry. If you know where I can access ready-made transcripts for free, that’d speed things up. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/338 "2005-07-12T12:38:58Z")
[2003 State of the Union](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html) > [@](#): > > The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb. **The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.** Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide. > > The dictator of Iraq is not disarming. To the contrary; he is deceiving. From intelligence sources we know, for instance, that thousands of Iraqi security personnel are at work hiding documents and materials from the U.N. inspectors, sanitizing inspection sites and monitoring the inspectors themselves. Iraqi officials accompany the inspectors in order to intimidate witnesses. 16 words in Bold, surrounded by a bunch of stuff that proved wrong. [Rice explains the Cockup:](http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/us/wh/us-wh-rice-073003.htm) > [@](#): > > Q That’s the speech where he made the case for war? > > DR. RICE: Well, this is one of the speeches in which he made the case for war. And in that speech, a line had been there about the uranium issue and Saddam Hussein seeking uranium in Africa. And Director Tenet had called Steve Hadley and he told him, in no specifics, he told him, I don’t think you should put that in the President’s speech because we don’t want to make the President his own fact witness. Both Steve and Director Tenet remember the conversation in that way. > > What we learned later, and I did not know at the time and certainly did not know until just before Steve Hadley went out to say what he said last week, was that the Director had also sent over to the White House a set of clearance comments that explained why he wanted this out of the speech. I can tell you, I either didn’t see the memo, I don’t remember seeing the memo – ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/339 "2005-07-12T14:27:41Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Look at your post #323 where you have a quote labeled “Originally Posted by **PatriotX**.” The words inside that quote are Rush Limbaugh’s, NOT **PatriotX** ’s. Why did you attribute those words to the wrong person? It was NOT intentional. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/340 "2005-07-12T14:56:13Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It was NOT intentional. I’m over it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791.md?page=18)