# Did Karl Rove out the CIA Agent? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791 "2005-07-02T03:04:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/361 "2005-07-13T00:54:59Z")
> [@](#): > > After two days of questions, the White House said Tuesday that President Bush continues to have confidence in Karl Rove… Just as a prominent figure’s death is almost always preceded by assurances from his spokespeople that he is just fine, this is often the prelude to a resignation. Now that the talking points are out, are there any usual Bush apologists in the media who are seeing through them and calling this what it is? There have to be at least a few who can’t defend this with a straight face. I’m a bit surprised that no Dopers have been along to defend Rove; I like to think that Dopers are above intelligence-insulting bullshit like this, but I’ve been surprised more than once. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/362 "2005-07-13T01:13:16Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Just as a prominent figure’s death is almost always preceded by assurances from his spokespeople that he is just fine, this is often the prelude to a resignation. Call me a vengeful bastard, but I for one will not be satisfied with a simple resignation, that would probably be followed by a cushy overpaid job somewhere. I want to see Rove, and everyone else involved, sentenced to life without parole and hard labor at Leavenworth. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/363 "2005-07-13T01:21:55Z")
We should insist on organic hemp. Nonetheless, chillitude, dude. Ms. Plame was, by all accounts, a covert operative, but hardly Jane Bond, she didn’t carry a cyanide capsule in her lipstick. Her work was important, to be sure, arms control is vital. And that work is compromised, even nullified. But in all probability, any threat is borne by those whom she contacted in her role, such foreign academics who will find themselves suspect. Bad scoobies all around, but not “treason”. I’ve come to detest that word, having seen it so often applied to the thoughtful and patriotic. Aldrich Ames was a traitor, Karl Rove is a political opportunist and a scumbag. Our best case lies in simple truth: that this was done for no other reason but to undercut a man who dared speak truth to power. It was spiteful, vindictive, and futile. A case for craven and meanspirited hypocrisy is clearly set forth, it has no need for embelllishment or exaggeration, indeed, it would suffer. Leave the loaded words to them, they have need of them, and we do not. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/364 "2005-07-13T01:31:33Z")
Spite, vindictiveness, futility, and hypocrisy are simply commonplace politics, though, barely worthy of mention, much less prosecution (you didn’t see the Pubbies suffer any for committing those sins in Blowjobgate, did you?). Actual criminal conduct, or rather getting caught at it, is out of the norm and grounds for disqualification from the game. Call the crime whatever the prosecutor does, as long as it’s inescapable that it was a crime. Responsibility for popularizing the word “treason” in association with outing a covert operative, FTR, is credited to President George **H.** W. Bush - when he signed the bill into law. Got any complaints, take 'em to Poppy. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/365 "2005-07-13T01:41:22Z")
The thing with Rove’s “push poll” against McCain, is there any doubt that it came from Rove? Is it indisputed? Even if Rove survives the Plame deal, at least it might get the push poll incident into the headlines. All those people who voted for Bush because of “morals” should know the kind of morality that got him the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/366 "2005-07-13T01:43:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Our best case lies in simple truth: that this was done for no other reason but to undercut a man who dared speak truth to power. It was spiteful, vindictive, and futile. A case for craven and meanspirited hypocrisy is clearly set forth, it has no need for embelllishment or exaggeration, indeed, it would suffer. > > Leave the loaded words to them, they have need of them, and we do not. While I am normally in agreement with your ideas, Elucidator, and would gladly subscribe to your newsletter, I have to say, this sounds an awful lot like the Dem strategy of “not fighting back” that has worked so wonderfully for them over the last two election cycles. Last I knew, Plame was a covert agent. Outing one is legally treason. Calling Rove a traitor for outing Plame is simple truth. ---
**Author:** ![KJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b2d939/32.png) [@KJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KJ)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/367 "2005-07-13T01:45:39Z")
Fun way to get alcohol poisoning: Take a shot every time you hear the phrase “ongoing investigation.” Honestly, if Rove resigned (fat chance) he’d at least have some of my respect. As it is, I see no dignity in the man whatsoever. What makes me sad is that this story has been at the top of the list on Google News for almost a week now (and is currently at the very top spot) yet I haven’t heard a single word about it on TV, aside from an indirect reference Jay Leno made last night. This just confirms what everyone’s been telling me about the American media. I was really hoping Jon Stewart would take this story and run with it, but I didn’t see anything about it last night. I wonder if they’ll do anything with it later in the week. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/368 "2005-07-13T02:27:56Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Right. Your laziness and lack of evidence is my problem. Well, that _is_ personal. > [@Merijeek](#): > > Whatever. Have a nice day. Just do your best to skip repeating your false assertions please. -Joe Well, now you’re the one making an assertion. You’ve asserted that my assertion’s false. Will you be providing evidence to back that up? Your not the boss of me. Your not the boss of me now. And you’re not so big. Rush makes fun of his listeners. Rush makes fun of his listeners. Rush makes fun of his listeners. Rush makes fun of his listeners. Neener! Neener! Neener! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/369 "2005-07-13T02:31:25Z")
**PatriotX** is unfair. ---
**Author:** ![KJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b2d939/32.png) [@KJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KJ)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/370 "2005-07-13T03:10:49Z")
…Okay, I take it back, I’ve actually seen it on several shows today. I’d be very surprised if it wasn’t on The Daily Show tonight. ---
**Author:** ![KJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b2d939/32.png) [@KJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KJ)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/371 "2005-07-13T03:18:03Z")
[sub]Apparently The Daily Show comes on earlier with the cable service I’ve got now. Who’da thunk? I didn’t even notice. Yes, they cover the story. Carry on…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/372 "2005-07-13T03:40:28Z")
Because, **Evil** (or would you rather I call you “Shirley”?)… The act itself reveals them for what they are: mean-spirited, underhanded and vindictive. Let that be the point. They told a nasty little lie and rather than come clean, they tried to cover it up. Which leads the fair minded observer, being you and I, to pose the question: what _won’t_ they lie about? But if we make the focus a _legal_ issue, the precise meaning of treason, you offer them an out. If they can come up with a technicality whereby they can wriggle out of that charge, it will be seen as an acquital. GeeDub’s handlers are at great pains to present him as a man of the people, a virile, manly straight-shooter, born in a rural gated community, blather blather blather. This kind of backstabbing is effete, even “bitchy”. And there is no technicality to hide under, it is what it is. And the beauty part, 'ey, is they are doing to _themselves_! We are simply standing there, mildly commenting on the bleeding obvious, batting big, brown innocent eyes. All the fingerprints are theirs, and we are shocked! shocked!.. Erosion, not conviction. Drip, drip, drip. The Emperor is nekkid, and unless my eyes deceive, he may be Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/373 "2005-07-13T04:32:50Z")
Man I justed watched the July 11th press conference. Nice to see the press grow their balls back. “This is an ongoing investigation” is going to haunt me in my sleep. What a bunch of fucking tools, I hope they go down in flames. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/374 "2005-07-13T04:49:57Z")
I can’t wait till the White House tries out, “She was just a third-rate bureaucrat.” ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/375 "2005-07-13T05:00:27Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Mehlman, McClellan, Rove, LIMBAUGH, etc can take their “talking points” and choke on them. They will not say anything when directly questioned, but when they have their “prepared points” with them, they won’t shut up. I can already see the spin starting - hysterical Democrats, liberals, freedom haters and Commies are “hounding and persecuting” a “good and righteous” man who is only trying to protect us from all the evil freedom haters. To me, it is getting more and more simple. Justified or not, we are in a state of war (as these great patriots keep telling us). Therefore, to out a covert operative and severely compromise national security is an act of Treason. To attempt to sweep it under the rug, cover it up, or weasel word it away, is conspiracy to commit treason. To fail to act on or investigate the allegations because the guy is your buddy, is part of that conspiracy. How many hanging ropes will we need? Apparently, [some people think Karl Rove should get a medal for this](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162335,00.html). I need to stop reading this guy’s columns, it’s not good for my blood pressure. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/376 "2005-07-13T05:08:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > We are simply standing there, mildly commenting on the bleeding obvious, batting big, brown innocent eyes. [Which one is You?](http://besmirched.tripod.com/gigology.html) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/377 "2005-07-13T05:16:21Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > > [@elucidator](#): > > > > We are simply standing there, mildly commenting on the bleeding obvious, batting big, brown innocent eyes. > > [Which one is You?](http://besmirched.tripod.com/gigology.html) Naw, **eluci** is more like [this.](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/Hailstorm769/calvin_bambi_eyes.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/378 "2005-07-13T06:17:34Z")
Man, you guys get _mean_ when you haven’t had your fiber! ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/379 "2005-07-13T07:46:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The act itself reveals them for what they are: mean-spirited, underhanded and vindictive. Let that be the point. They told a nasty little lie and rather than come clean, they tried to cover it up. Which leads the fair minded observer, being you and I, to pose the question: what _won’t_ they lie about? > > But if we make the focus a _legal_ issue, the precise meaning of treason, you offer them an out. If they can come up with a technicality whereby they can wriggle out of that charge, it will be seen as an acquital. I’d like to think your strategy would work, but it won’t. The Bush admin will muddy the waters with their spin so well that if there is no simple clearcut one line independent condemnation of Rove, forget it. If it comes down to the elucidator’s of this world saying: “what Rove did was tell a nasty little lie” and the Bushista’s saying “Wilson and his wife were standing in the way of the fight for Freedom against Terrorism” the end result will be nuthin’. In fact, knowing how much better than everyone else the Bushista’s spin, their version will prevail. Unless the TV is shouting “Bush man guilty of treason” this will all go nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/380 "2005-07-13T12:24:02Z")
Apparently the Republican strategy is to stay the course and drag this out long enough so that the coming brouhaha over the Supreme Court nominee drowns out the Rove affair. Stay the course, wouldn’t be prudent to get rid of Karl, all is well. Terrorism, freedom, 9-11, freedom, 9-11, terrorism, terrorists, brave men and women, 9-11, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, axis of evil. So there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791.md?page=20)