# Did Karl Rove out the CIA Agent? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791 "2005-07-02T03:04:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/21 "2005-07-02T17:36:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > …[crickets chirping]… [MSNBC Analyst Says 2nd Source Confirms Karl Rove as Plame Leaker](http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000972841) Still, even if true, this isn’t a story about “Blow Job Perjury.” (That’s the most _serious_ kind.) It’s a story about “Blow Cover Perjury,” which, despite it’s similar name, does not carry the same legal or ethical baggage. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/22 "2005-07-02T18:02:21Z")
I’m not defending Rove, as I think if it was him he should be charged under the Espionage Act like eveyone else unless the President says that he authorized it, which makes it OK but nonetheless slimy. But (and you knew there would be a but after that long run-on sentence), I fail to see where perjury comes into play here with Rove. “Blow Cover Perjury” is a bit misleading, wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/23 "2005-07-02T18:07:50Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > I fail to see where perjury comes into play here with Rove. Apparently Rove testified to the grand jury that he was not involved in blowing Plame’s cover. If that statement was false, “blow cover perjury” fits the situation to a T. Of course everything is a _long_ ways from proven yet. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/24 "2005-07-02T18:21:56Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > If they do charge him, what will they charge him with? It’s a serious federal crime to reveal the identity of a CIA agent. The law was passed at the urging of our president’s father, George Herbert Walker Bush, who once ran the CIA. At the time, the elder Bush said that exposing a CIA agent was the same as treason. ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/25 "2005-07-02T19:37:23Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > unless the President says that he authorized it, which makes it OK Since when does the president have the authority to allow his staff to commit felonies with impunity? And if the trail of this leak really did go all the way to the Oval Office, wouldn’t that be an impeachable offence so blatant that even the right wing could no longer ignore it? ---
**Author:** ![Tentacle\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba9def/32.png) [@Tentacle\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tentacle_Monster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/26 "2005-07-02T19:48:45Z")
There are a few things I know about secret information. One, you need the proper security clearance. Two, you need the proper authorization. Three, you have to have the “need-to-know”. Karl Rove, as Special Advisor to the President, probably has clearances up the wazoo. But who decided that he needed to know the real identity of a CIA agent, and who authorized it? ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/27 "2005-07-02T19:58:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Karl Rove, as Special Advisor to the President, probably has clearances up the wazoo. But who decided that he needed to know the real identity of a CIA agent, and who authorized it? Exactly. My understanding is that the reporters are not under any legal liability for the revelation itself because they don’t hold any security clearance; once they get the information, they can report it however they like. I doubt Rove has that level of clearance either, so I suspect he is probably similarly under no obligation to keep it a secret. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/28 "2005-07-02T20:18:34Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Apparently Rove testified to the grand jury that he was not involved in blowing Plame’s cover. If that statement was false, “blow cover perjury” fits the situation to a T. > Of course everything is a _long_ ways from proven yet. Would it seriously chap your nads to wait until the facts are known, or is your desire to tar and feather anything Republican so irresistable? Like **Airman Doors** has said, if it comes out that Rove is the guilty party, then he deserves to be punished. Would cooling your jets for a short space be possible? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/29 "2005-07-02T20:30:27Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Would it seriously chap your nads to wait until the facts are known, or is your desire to tar and feather anything Republican so irresistable? Like **Airman Doors** has said, if it comes out that Rove is the guilty party, then he deserves to be punished. Would cooling your jets for a short space be possible? Seeing how Rove tarred and feathered the liberals lately… **NO.** And that is also because by now, someone in this administration knows who the guilty party is; IMO it is obstruction of justice now. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/30 "2005-07-02T20:45:00Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Seeing how Rove tarred and feathered the liberals lately… > > **NO.** > > And that is also because by now, someone in this administration knows who the guilty party is; IMO it is obstruction of justice now. Ah. Waiting for the facts to be known is an impediment. Guess you’ll need to keep that tar on slow heat. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/31 "2005-07-02T20:45:58Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Would it seriously chap your nads to wait until the facts are known, or is your desire to tar and feather anything Republican so irresistable? How long do you think a reasonable person should wait? The investigation has been going on for YEARS. This past week brought on singnificant developments. Reporters headed for jail, Time magazine caving on confidentiality, now this Rove rumor. Does the world have to come crashing to an end before you deem anything worthy of comment? ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/32 "2005-07-02T20:51:19Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > How long do you think a reasonable person should wait? The investigation has been going on for YEARS. > This past week brought on singnificant developments. Reporters headed for jail, Time magazine caving on confidentiality, now this Rove rumor. Does the world have to come crashing to an end before you deem anything worthy of comment? Given that the investigation has been ongoing, does it offend your sense of justice to ratchet back for another week or so until the facts are truly ascertained? Perspective, man. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/33 "2005-07-02T20:53:02Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Ah. Waiting for the facts to be known is an impediment. . like that same administration did wrt Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/34 "2005-07-02T20:56:35Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Ah. Waiting for the facts to be known is an impediment. Guess you’ll need to keep that tar on slow heat. So whas the thing Rove say a lie? Incidentally the facts will come out but there is already evidence that someone in the administration is obstructing justice by now. We all know how quickly this administration judged the evidence for WMDs. Part of that judgment involved outing a CIA agent. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/35 "2005-07-02T21:01:08Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Given that the investigation has been ongoing, does it offend your sense of justice to ratchet back for another week or so until the facts are truly ascertained? > Perspective, man. The perspective is in the context of WMDs, the investigation of the Plame outing is part of the now certified failure to investigate properly the WMD intelligence. It fits with the evidence of this administration “fixing” the evidence on WMDs. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/36 "2005-07-02T21:20:46Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > ratchet back for another week or so until the facts are truly ascertained? Ratchet what back? I’ve not even accused Rove of farting in public. On the other hand, someone _did_ treasonously out an undercover cia agent, and I’m not about to go all soft on that crime just because it appears that whoever it was worked in the white house. Is that what you’re asking for? Your plea for patience is just fucking baffling. It’s been two years. This is not rocket science. We _should_ have had answers in 2004. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/37 "2005-07-02T22:54:54Z")
> [@Twoflower](#): > > Since when does the president have the authority to allow his staff to commit felonies with impunity? > > And if the trail of this leak really did go all the way to the Oval Office, wouldn’t that be an impeachable offence so blatant that even the right wing could no longer ignore it? It falls into the murky waters of National Security. The President can authorize all kinds of stuff if he can justify the release as being vital to the security of the United States. How he would do that I don’t know, but it could happen. The President, by definition, cannot be a spy, and if he leaks stuff out it’s not espionage. If he authorized the release through an agent it’s scummy but it’s not illegal. However, if Rove did it on his own hook he’s toast. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/38 "2005-07-02T23:01:52Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Would it seriously chap your nads to wait until the facts are known, or is your desire to tar and feather anything Republican so irresistable? Like **Airman Doors** has said, if it comes out that Rove is the guilty party, then he deserves to be punished. Would cooling your jets for a short space be possible? ::: Remembers the Republican response to a certain other perjury charge, the media circus, the outrage, the puffery, the absolute lack of shame displayed … ::: Smiles an evil smile. Nah. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/39 "2005-07-02T23:08:49Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > It falls into the murky waters of National Security. The President can authorize all kinds of stuff if he can justify the release as being vital to the security of the United States. How he would do that I don’t know, but it could happen. The President, by definition, cannot be a spy, and if he leaks stuff out it’s not espionage. If he authorized the release through an agent it’s scummy but it’s not illegal. By what definition can the President not be a spy? We spent some time some 30-odd years ago demonstrating that the President of the United States is _ **NOT** _ above the law. He must follow the law just as all his fellow citizens must. This concept of yours is terrifying. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/40 "2005-07-02T23:23:44Z")
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