# Did Karl Rove out the CIA Agent? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791 "2005-07-02T03:04:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/501 "2005-07-18T06:35:35Z")
> [@The Highwayman](#): > > Does anyone ever get tired of slapping these idiot conservative fucktards with fact after fact only to have them not learn a single thing? Where is young **Ptolemais** anyway? He issued his challenge like a clarion call to battle, yet now… silence. I sure _hope_ he’s not one of those execrable [Yellow Elephants](http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/2005/07/downloadable-stickers.html) we keep hearing about; all wind and bluster, signifying nothing. Still, as the hours grow longer, I begin to wonder. Please come back **Ptolemais**. Defend Mr. Rove. Defend your president. Defend **yourself**. Stand up for what you believe. Or are you, so soon, merely a dog who’s been beat too much? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/502 "2005-07-18T06:37:04Z")
My personal favorite excuse, “Well, we didn’t say her name. We just said ‘Wilson’s wife.’” Dumbest rationalization EVER. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/503 "2005-07-18T07:04:51Z")
Leaving the territory of reasonable analysis and venturing into the lush wilderness of the WAG… I don’t think its Bolton. Clearly, this presents some sort of threat quite beyond the importance of either Mr. Rove or Mr. Bolton. I think it has something to do with the Great Senatorial Backstab. They agreed, on a bi-partisan basis, to investigate only the intelligence _gathering_, strictly avoiding any expeditions into the analysis and applications of that intelligence. Which expedition, you will recall, was to be the basis of Phase Two. But a deal was struck in our conclave of cocksuckers, and now there will be no phase two. The Bushiviks are free to mourn the dreadful state of misinformation, innocent lambs that they are. Did GeeDub read Wilson’s report? Was it even forwarded? How about Richard “Big Dick” Cheney? Surely he read it, or was at least advised of its contents? Did they send a follow-up investigator? Who? What was his report? And if not, why not? With so many experts expressing doubt and disagreement, how is it that they never doubted their certainty? Why would anyone trust “Cueball”? Why would anyone trust Chalabi? That’s why. They are desperate not to remind you that the nuclear threat from Saddam was how they got the ball rolling, despite expert testimony to the opposite. They had no doubt when doubt was _precisely_ what was called for. They are either fools or scoundrels. So, the question: who read Wilson’s report, and why. And who did not read it who should have, and why? They want us to believe that it was perectly reasonable to ignore Wilson’s report because he was so lame, biased, and partisan. Well, all right then, did they send someone else? Or did they simply rely on Feith based intelligence? I’m pretty sure I know the answer to that question. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/504 "2005-07-18T17:50:45Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > My personal favorite excuse, “Well, we didn’t say her name. We just said ‘Wilson’s wife.’” > > Dumbest rationalization EVER. Nobody dares speak the Name. Must be Voldemort 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/505 "2005-07-18T18:15:03Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > My personal favorite excuse, “Well, we didn’t say her name. We just said ‘Wilson’s wife.’” > > Dumbest rationalization EVER. Nitpick: Dumbest rationalization SO FAR. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/506 "2005-07-18T19:01:01Z")
> [@](#): > > My personal favorite excuse, “Well, we didn’t say her name. We just said ‘Wilson’s wife.’” > > Dumbest rationalization EVER. It’s pretty dumb, but to me it’s a close second here. The dumbest by far is "She was already out, because Wilson had her name on his web site! It was not classified information that a woman named Valerie Plame existed; it was classified that she worked for the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/507 "2005-07-18T20:02:24Z")
Is someone assembling a list? 'cause it’d be a pretty funny thing to read after the fact, I think. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/508 "2005-07-18T21:00:48Z")
Supposedly, there’s a disagreement on the part of the CIA over Mrs. Wilson’s role in sending/recommending Mr. Wilson for the trip. (ie They say she didn’t) I’ve not been able to find the document yet, though I have seen two references to it, and heard one reference to it. Has anyone seen it? Here’re the print references to it [http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2005/07/14/plame/print.html](http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2005/07/14/plame/print.html) The three-page addendum by the ranking Republicans followed the now well-worn attack lines: “The plan to send the former ambassador to Niger was suggested by the former ambassador’s wife, a CIA employee.” The CIA subsequently issued a statement, as reported by New York Newsday and CNN, that the Republican senators’ conclusion about Plame’s role was wholly inaccurate. and [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/16/AR2005071601364\_pf.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/16/AR2005071601364_pf.html) CIA officials maintain that Plame never ordered up the trip. I’d like to see the actual CIA response, or failing that, the news articles discussing the CIA’s response. If anyone has seen either of these and knows where to direct me, I’d be much obliged. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/509 "2005-07-19T00:46:39Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Is someone assembling a list? 'cause it’d be a pretty funny thing to read after the fact, I think. No, it wouldn’t. Reading such a thing and attempting to reconcile it with logic could possibly burn out brain circuits, dude. Don’t you watch television? Compiling that much irrationality and falsity in one post is dangerous to those who are allergic to \*bad lies. Remember what happened to that [android](http://www.startrek-wormhole.com/estore.cgi?search_type=CustomerReviews&item_id=6300213455&locale=us#review_1) in Star Trek? That could happen to us! I mean, come on now. But in all seriousness, there’s a disquieting desperation that seems to have taken over the administration and its legion of spin regurgitators. Their attempts to undermine Wilson–when legally, ethically, and professionally this has nothing to do with him–are a blatant display of this desperation. Wilson could be Bobo the Fool for all I care; why does that justify Rove’s actions with respect to classified information? No one who is convinced of Rove’s benevolence has explained that. I mean, like, if Wilson’s report was so inaccurate and stuff…WHY NOT SIMPLY SAY THAT AT THE TIME HIS REPORT WAS PUBLISHED!! Why waste precious energy on discrediting someone if you are on the side of truth? Unless you aren’t on the side of truth…and you can’t discredit the information. Then its all too clear why you’d rather discredit the person rather than the info that they are reporting. Hmmmmmm. And maybe I’m dumb or something but the whole “his wife is a CIA agent working on WMDs” angle severely underconvinces me that Wilson lacked credibility. It sounds as much as a non sequitur as “You don’t know anything about being rich, 'cause your daddy is Bill Gates”. Okay? Are you _trying_ to make my head explode? 'Cause its gonna if you keep that shit up. - bad lies = bad as in “even Bobo the Fool could through them” lies ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/510 "2005-07-19T01:12:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > IIRC, they did change the speech just enough, they installed a “trap door” by making the reference to “British intelligence has discovered”. Admittedly, I’m relying on memory here, but I’ll betcha one or another of our resident Googlemonsters could ferret it out toot damn sweet. Besides, I’ve got a mind like a steel…leg-grabbing thingy. Toddler? You’ve got a mind like a steel toddler? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/511 "2005-07-19T01:18:18Z")
Or a Jack Russell. Same diff. ---
**Author:** ![JimSox5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5a626/32.png) [@JimSox5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimSox5)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/512 "2005-07-19T17:33:05Z")
Who else is getting a feeling today of “Well, this Rove shit isn’t working out as planned, so we better do something big. . .I know! Let’s nominate a Supreme Court Justice!” I’ll bet there’s an uber-conservative nominated to draw more energy towards protesting that instead of going after Rove. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791/513 "2005-07-19T18:08:07Z")
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, President Stay-The-Course is [backpedalling](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/07/19/bush_seems_to_shift_on_his_grounds_for_dismissal/) on what it will take to get rid of any treasonous wretches who dare to reveal a covert CIA operative’s identity: > [@](#): > > ''If someone committed a crime, they will no longer be in my administration," Bush said, answering a question about whether his deputy chief of staff, Karl Rove, should be fired if he is found to have leaked the identity of a former CIA operative, Valerie Plame. The leaking of information about Plame, who is married to a White House critic and a former ambassador, Joseph C. Wilson IV, is being investigated by a federal grand jury. > > Bush’s remarks suggested he has narrowed the criteria for sacking a White House employee in the Plame matter; previous statements by Bush and his press secretary, Scott McClellan, made as recently as last year, indicated that Bush would dismiss anyone from his staff who had identified Plame to reporters. > > ''If there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is. And if that person has violated the law, the person will be taken care of," Bush said at a campaign stop in Chicago in October 2003. McClellan, speaking to reporters just before the campaign appearance, said, ''If anyone in this administration was involved in it, they would no longer be in this administration." > > Bush, asked directly in June 2004 if he would dismiss someone who leaked the agent’s name, responded: ''Yes." But yesterday, as the drama over Rove’s possible involvement escalated, he seemed to subtly alter the standard for ousting the friend and longtime adviser who masterminded his two winning presidential campaigns. So, I suppose if Rove (or Libby, or whoever else in his administration) is indicted, then the criterion will be conviction. If convicted, then no rush to judgment until all appeals are exhausted. That should do the trick until Jeb runs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-karl-rove-out-the-cia-agent/310791.md?page=25)