# Did Kerry Cheat in the Debate? And if so, what will be done? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 4, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397 "2004-10-04T01:06:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/21 "2004-10-04T06:26:45Z")
Trying to treat the OP with all seriousness… …so, we’re supposed to believe that the only reason Kerry out-debated Bush at the debates was because he had some secret “mickey” that he pulled out of his pocket beforehand? That if Kerry _hadn’t_ produced this whatever-it-is, Kerry would have been lost for answers the entire evening, and George W. Bush would have answered everything addressed to him with grace and aplomb? Forget the question of whether or not Kerry cheated, I’m still trying to figure out what this Mysterious MacGuffin™ _is._ ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/22 "2004-10-04T06:48:34Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Trying to treat the OP with all seriousness… > > …so, we’re supposed to believe that the only reason Kerry out-debated Bush at the debates was because he had some secret “mickey” that he pulled out of his pocket beforehand? That if Kerry _hadn’t_ produced this whatever-it-is, Kerry would have been lost for answers the entire evening, and George W. Bush would have answered everything addressed to him with grace and aplomb? > > Forget the question of whether or not Kerry cheated, I’m still trying to figure out what this Mysterious MacGuffin™ _is._ Clearly it was a portable transcranial magnetic stimulator, which Kerry used to give himself [temporary savant-like skills](http://www.wireheading.com/brainstim/savant.html) in the debating arts. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/23 "2004-10-04T06:49:40Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Forget the question of whether or not Kerry cheated, I’m still trying to figure out what this Mysterious MacGuffin™ _is._ A can of whoop-ass ? 😃 (Stole this from another MB.) ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/24 "2004-10-04T07:38:51Z")
I like how the video mysteriously jumps just as you get the only clear view of the leprechaun feeding Kerry answers 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/25 "2004-10-04T07:50:18Z")
Have you stopped beating your wife yet? > [@Kel Varnsen - Latex Division](#): > > Below is a link to a video of Kerry taking something out of his pocket. I believe it’s a pen. > [@Kel Varnsen - Latex Division](#): > > Is there anyhing Kerry could take out of his pocket that would be a violation of the debate rules? No, it’d have to be like the notes that Bush had on his podium, that an aide came out and retrieved immediately after the debate was over. Or maybe the earpiece. > [@Kel Varnsen - Latex Division](#): > > If it is determined he cheated, what will be done? Don’t know, since he didn’t cheat, but if the false meme gets widely spread, it would allow Bush to withdraw from the next two debates with hopes of NOT looking like a chickenshit. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/26 "2004-10-04T07:55:53Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > It also laid down rules about the cameras. > > But they were ignored. > > Should the networks be punished? I realize this is an aside, but the candidates’ people made up their own rules about what the networks could do. The networks weren’t involved and had no obligation to follow those rules. In fact, I say good for them that they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/27 "2004-10-04T08:06:21Z")
Unfortunately, I can’t view the video right now. Anyone else having this problem? Breaking the rules is not the same as cheating in this case. If Kerry brought a pen or took his own blank notecards with him, that may violate the agreed-upon rules (although who knows if he was even involved in the tiny details like that), but calling it cheating is just plain dumb. If he took notes up there with him or was being given advice on an earpiece, THAT would be cheating and would clearly violate the rules. I didn’t watch the entire debate, but he never appeared to be reading to me, though he did take some notes. These guys both practiced for these debates for days or weeks. Taking a chance by cheating in front of a camera, by reading illegal notes in front of a camera, would be absolutely stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/28 "2004-10-04T08:08:52Z")
Question: Why wasn’t this foolish thread sent to the Pit immediately? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/29 "2004-10-04T08:26:48Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Question: Why wasn’t this foolish thread sent to the Pit immediately? 5(f): The candidates may not ask each other direct questions, but may ask rhetorical questions. ---
**Author:** ![LuckySevens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LuckySevens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LuckySevens)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/30 "2004-10-04T09:21:04Z")
Each canidate would probably be to confident of beating the other to cheat. Oh, and to those who say Dubya cheated, have you ever tried talking and listening too both Kerry and some voice in your ear at the same time? Honestly, anyone would be better off without the earpiece. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/31 "2004-10-04T12:58:24Z")
Matt Drudge is pushing this story hard, trying to make the video into some Zapruder film of liberal perfidy. Funny how these conservatives are playing “back-and-to-the-right” over that fuzzy clip all day but won’t acknowledge how there’s a clear and present “Wormtongue” type figure, snivelling vacuously to Kerry’s left. Who believes that Kerry needs a crib sheet to beat Bush in that debate, or any other, any time? … Seriously? And if you believe that, how do you know it wasn’t something else he was pulling out of his pocket? (Maybe he was sneaking a peek at his map of the flat earth, or his marching orders from the planet Nemesis, or his pact with the devil.) ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/32 "2004-10-04T13:27:26Z")
Before they reached the podiums (podiae?) Bush and Kerry shook hands and mumbled something to each other. Probably something snarky, but also possibly something terribly statesmanlike. I can even see the exchange going like this - _THE CANDIDATES shake hands. KERRY leans in to speak quietly. BUSH stands tall and braces his handshake with a brotherly hand on KERRY’s shoulder._ KERRY: Mister President, good luck. BUSH: And to you, Senator. This is going to look great for the cameras. KERRY: Finally something we can agree on! BOTH: Jovial smiles and chuckles. Anyhow, during that handshake, it would be possible for either candidate to slip the other a note or a small trinket. Bush could have passed an elephant pin to Kerry, or a voodoo doll, or a ketchup packet, or a Skull And Bones membership pin… you know, a boys-will-be-boys thing. If it was just a lark between them, neither candidate will publicly mention it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/33 "2004-10-04T14:41:29Z")
To give a factual answer, yes, it appears that Kerry broke one of the rules to which he had agreed beforehand. I don’t see any advantage that it gave him, and the moderator did not call him on it. I imagine this would lose him points if it were a formally scored debate. I had a friend who was disqualified during a forensics competition for taking off and gesturing with his glasses, because you weren’t supposed to use props. _:shrugs:_ What will be done? Nothing. _De minimus non curat lex._ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/34 "2004-10-04T15:25:14Z")
According to the [NY Post](http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/31273.htm) they reviewed the feeds and seem fairly confident that it was a pen, and Kerry’s people confirmed this story. This is still a technical violation of the rules (candidates were supposed to submit their pens to the people running the debates before hand, who would then leave them on the podium), but so minor that I can’t imagine any one giving a \*&!!@#. As for Bush having an earpiece, I heard that during a press conference in France he did this and the networks picked up the voice of the person prompting him as well as Bush’s own voice. Does anyone have the straight dope on this. I wouldn’t give this much creedence (I still don’t give it much creedence, but this tin foil hat stuff is kinda fun for its own sake) except that Bush’s “let me finish” comment was so bizarre, and him accedently addressing the person on the other end of his earpiece would at least explain that. My memory may be flawed, but I don’t think he was addressing Kerry as he wasn’t looking in that direction, and he still had a good amount of time left so it seems unlikely that the moderator was interupting. The audience was dead quite the entire debate. Can we have this moved to Great Debates so I don’t feel so guilty posting such speculative nonesense. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/35 "2004-10-04T15:39:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > To give a factual answer, yes, it appears that Kerry broke one of the rules to which he had agreed beforehand. I don’t see any advantage that it gave him, and the moderator did not call him on it. I imagine this would lose him points if it were a formally scored debate. He pulled out a pen. Exactly how gullible are you? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/36 "2004-10-04T15:42:29Z")
Whoops, didn’t realize which forum this was. I’ll keep it nice. ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/37 "2004-10-04T16:06:49Z")
> [@Kel Varnsen - Latex Division](#): > > Is there anyhing Kerry could take out of his pocket that would be a violation of the debate rules? I fell asleep halfway through the rules, but I didn’t see anything that barred either one from pulling out pistols and settling this, like men, at 20 paces. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397/38 "2004-10-04T16:08:39Z")
This is better suited to Great Debates than GQ. There’s already a thread in GD, so I’ll close this thread rather than move it. See [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279090](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279090) bibliophage moderator GQ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kerry-cheat-in-the-debate-and-if-so-what-will-be-done/267397.md?page=1)