# Did Kim Jong Il travel the world using false documents? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 9, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450 "2013-03-09T01:50:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/1 "2013-03-09T01:50:16Z")
I recall reading a claim somewhere, of unknown veracity or authority, that during the 70s and 80s Kim Jong Il had traveled the world including visiting the USA using false identity documents/passport claiming him to be a Chinese citizen. I can’t locate this allegation anywhere now, including the wiki page. Where did I read this?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/2 "2013-03-09T02:12:03Z")
I recall an incident in which one of his sons – a brother of the present ruler – got popped by Japanese authorities for a false passport when he tried to enter that country to visit Tokyo’s Disneyland with his family. Maybe you’re thinking of that? ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/3 "2013-03-09T05:10:20Z")
Yes, Un’s older brother (who Un described as “not interested on politics”) was caught trying to enter Japan on a fake passport. He is still alive, but was passed over for the hereditary position of (xxxxxxxxxx) Leader. Haven’t heard what kind of “Leader” Un is going to get called. I wouldn’t doubt if Un had been around the globe a time or two - there are “diplomatic” flights to Singapore (IIRC) which pick up the luxury goodies the boss hands out as attaboys it may be that this last rounf of sanctions actually require the seizing of such goods when the planes re-fuel in Honk Kong (again IIRC). The biggie this time is that China is on board - if the Chinese _do_ start seizing stuff\*, the little man is going to have a real snit fit. - - you will never stop a person with enough money from loading whatever they want in Singapore due to corruption. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/4 "2013-03-09T08:09:08Z")
Kim Jong Un supposedly went to a private school in Switzerland. If true then he probably traveled some in Europe. > **['He couldn't speak English, didn't pass any exams and was obsessed with...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2077506/Kim-Jong-Il-dead-Heir-Kim-Jong-Uns-Swiss-school-days-revealed.html)** > > A probe into the school days of Kim Jong Un (circled) proves he is little more than an academic failure who squandered his education playing computer games and basketball. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/5 "2013-03-09T16:11:50Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I recall an incident in which one of his sons – a brother of the present ruler – got popped by Japanese authorities for a false passport when he tried to enter that country to visit Tokyo’s Disneyland with his family. Maybe you’re thinking of that? [Yeah, this is likely it and what caused him to not be the next in line for the “throne”.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gcce98T7Lw) Here he is being interviewed by a Japanese news station. I think he lives in Macau, where he gambles big-time and lives in a suite or something. Spoiled brat-prince. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/6 "2013-03-09T16:54:56Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Yes, Un’s older brother (who Un described as “not interested on politics”) was caught trying to enter Japan on a fake passport. He is still alive, but was passed over for the hereditary position of (xxxxxxxxxx) Leader. > Haven’t heard what kind of “Leader” Un is going to get called. “Outstanding Leader.” Seriously. I wonder if he gets to pick from a list, like with Secret Service code names. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/7 "2013-03-09T21:12:07Z")
Was this the brother who was also considered “not manly enough”? Code for…? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Milton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6bbea6/32.png) [@Mr.Milton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Milton)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/8 "2013-03-12T18:36:10Z")
Code for not Stalinist enough, not doctrinaire enough, not savage enough. Older brother might actually want to pursue some course other than threatening to turn Seoul into “a sea of flames” if he doesn’t get protection money and access to Scooby Snacks. He is therefore not manly enough. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/9 "2013-03-12T20:10:26Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Was this the brother who was also considered “not manly enough”? Code for…? Being a musical theater lover? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/10 "2013-03-12T20:33:21Z")
Kim Jong himself did travel, he had a fear of planes but had a special train setup with luxury cars for travel. He would travel semi-frequently to China via this train. Remember that after the 70s when the U.S. normalized relations with China the Chinese up until the 90s still had a strong feeling of, “we’ve gone in a different direction than North Korea, but they remain are brothers in arms who bled with us in the past.” That went a long way with the hardline upper leadership in the PRC. In the 90s the PRC took a different tack that they couldn’t afford to have North Korea collapse because it would destabilize the borders, and that they needed North Korea as a regional ally of sorts against the Japanese. Since then the Chinese have gone further and further from all of those positions into a “wow, these guys are really fucking annoying” stance, there are even Chinese op-eds now going around China where some leading university professors are openly saying any Chinese relationship with North Korea is only to North Korea’s benefit and to China’s detriment in pretty much every way that matters (geopolitically, diplomatically, economically.) I wouldn’t expect Un to have similar travel privileges as his father in China via the special train. I also think before relations cooled Kim would travel as far as the Soviet Union by train, but I’m less sure on that. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/11 "2013-03-12T20:35:05Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Was this the brother who was also considered “not manly enough”? Code for…? No, that was the second son, [Kim Jong-Chul](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=635635). The eldest son, Kim Jong-Nam, was the one arrested at Disneyland Tokyo. Kim Jong-Un is the third son of Kim Jong-Il. The three brothers also have two sisters, one between Jong-Nam and Jong-Chul, and one younger than all three. And of course, the five progeny have three different mothers, so many of them are really half-siblings to each other rather than full siblings. Ain’t North Korea grand? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/12 "2013-03-13T02:54:10Z")
I don’t see how Kim Jong-il could have traveled incognito even if he’d wanted to. He was pretty recognizable. His looks were distinctive. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/13 "2013-03-13T03:18:23Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I don’t see how Kim Jong-il could have traveled incognito even if he’d wanted to. He was pretty recognizable. His looks were distinctive. This was in the 70s and 80s, when Kim Jong Il was not really known outside of North Korea and when North Korea wasn’t nearly as relevant on the international stage. Ever since the collapse of the USSR the NK has used belligerance and WMD to get attention. I don’t think that was their foreign policy in the 70s and 80s. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-kim-jong-il-travel-the-world-using-false-documents/652450/14 "2013-03-13T03:42:17Z")
True, true.