# Did Lee Harvey Oswald have an escape plan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016 "2010-05-19T16:43:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/81 "2011-01-27T22:33:45Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > Tippett’s widow became a millionaire, IIRC, from the donations that poured in for her. I hadn’t heard that - do you have a cite? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/82 "2011-01-27T22:58:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I hadn’t heard that - do you have a cite? > > Regards, > Shodan [http://www.jdtippit.com/html/happen\_nov.htm](http://www.jdtippit.com/html/happen_nov.htm) (Scroll down to note 48, the figure mentioned is $600,000. I don’t have the book, but the note cites, Myers, Dale K., With Malice: Lee Harvey Oswald and the Murder of Officer J.D. Tippit, Oak Cliff Press: Milford, MI, 1998, pp.26-27) [J.D. Tippit "her fallen hero" | TexAgs](http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=1734983&forum_id=49) (Dallas Morning News from 2004, also citing the $600k figure, probably from the book cited above.) From “Reclaiming history: the assassination of President John F. Kennedy”, Vincent Bugliosi, bottom of page 315, > [@](#): > > “Within months, 40,000 pieces of mail containing close to $650,000 in donations are given to the Tippit family.” Bugliosi breaks it down further that ~$312k went to her, ~$331k to the kids, and ~$3,500 to policeman and fireman’s funds. This was helped by Huntley and Brinkley urging their audience to send Tippit’s family donations, in lieu of flowers to the President. Surprised nobody’s broken out the zombie thread catcalls by now. Or are 6 month old threads not considered zombie? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/83 "2011-01-27T22:59:02Z")
[QUOTE=Capitaine Zombie] BTW, what is this time capsule thing you all keep refering to? [/QUOTE] I presume [this](http://www.620wtmj.com/shows/genemueller/45153537.html) is what Susanann is talking about, but it’s hard to know. A lot of folks who believe in the JFK assassination CT think that there is some secret store of information about the event that the government is sitting on. > [@](#): > > As Promised: JFK Time Capsule Opened > [@](#): > > A safe in the Dallas, Texas District Attorney’s office that apparently remained locked up for decades has now been opened, spilling forth what amounts to a 1960’s time capsule. > > ``` > An old safe in a long-gone official's office in a far-away state really wouldn't be of much interest to the rest of the country, except for the fact that this was Dallas, circa 1963 when a routine visit by President Kennedy turned into one of the great crimes of the 20th Century. > > > As blogged here previously, the most interesting find is what looks to be part of what looks to be a manuscript from a movie that was never made--one that included a scene in which Jack Ruby plotted Kennedy's assassination with Lee Harvey Oswald a month and a half before the killing. It includes a date--October 4th, 1963--during which time investigators say Oswald's whereabouts can be accounted for. His itinerary that day did NOT include a stop at the nightclub where the meeting supposedly occurred. If the Warren Commission and other investigators didn't do their job in proving Oswald's guilt in the JFK assassination to skeptics, they've done a wonderful job of detailing Oswald's life including the fact that he was a loner who, when he wasn't working, was always either at his rooming house or visiting his wife/kids who stayed with friends in the Dallas suburbs. And, no one other than Oliver Stone and a badly mistaken "witness" claims to have ever seen Oswald with Ruby before the events of that November weekend. Their first and only meeting was when Ruby introduced himself not with a handshake, but a pistol blast into Oswald's midsection as he was being transferred to the Dallas County Jail two days after the Kennedy slaying. > > ``` > [@](#): > > There are other items, including sets of Ruby’s brass knuckles (the killer of Oswald not only owned two Dallas strip joints, but also served as his own bouncer/enforcer), and clothing from both Ruby and Oswald. And, there’s correspondence of all kinds between then-District Attorney Henry Wade and other Texas government officials–one piece which is particularly telling of the times in which the JFK drama played out. There is a letter to Wade from a neighboring county, one which speaks of having “the blackest earth–and the whitest people.” > > ``` > Times, fortunately, have changed. > > Here's the Dallas Morning News story on today's news conference with more backround on the safe and detail on it's contents. And, here's another link that'll give those new to the Kennedy assassination details on how the murder played out, and how it was covered by the Dallas media. Fascinating stuff, if you're a freak on this subject the way I am. > > ``` -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/84 "2011-01-27T23:02:43Z")
> [@Klondike](#): > > I really don’t want to take the bait and argue with you. Suffice to say, I’ve never stated my beliefs on here so I really don’t know what you are talking about. Really. > [@you](#): > > This is why I believe, James Hosty, the Dallas FBI agent in charge of Oswald’s case file… I’ve made this kind of mistake myself, saying “I never…” when in fact I obviously and literally and recently _had_, so I won’t make a big deal about it, but where exactly did you get the idea that evidence had been destroyed by the FBI, and by Hosty and Shankin specifically? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/85 "2011-01-27T23:07:11Z")
[QUOTE=Gray Ghost] Surprised nobody’s broken out the zombie thread catcalls by now. Or are 6 month old threads not considered zombie? [/QUOTE] There seems to have been a rash of zombie threads in the last few months for some reason, so I think everyone is taking it in stride these days and just going with the flow. I believe that the mods are now allowing it more often without shutting them down, as long as there is some actual discussion happening. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Klondike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/41988e/32.png) [@Klondike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klondike)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/86 "2011-01-28T02:43:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Really. > > I’ve made this kind of mistake myself, saying “I never…” when in fact I obviously and literally and recently _had_, so I won’t make a big deal about it, but where exactly did you get the idea that evidence had been destroyed by the FBI, and by Hosty and Shankin specifically? Thanks for correcting my grammer. Years ago I read Hosty’s book “Assignment Oswald” in which he recalled the story. Not having a copy of the book I cannot quote chapter and verse. I did find a little something on the matter at The Mary Ferrell Foundation’s website: ``` Home/JFK Assassination/Theories and Perspectives/Cover-Up/Destruction of the Oswald Note ``` Contents ``` * 1 Destruction of the Oswald Note o 1.1 RESOURCES: o 1.2 Comments On This Page o 1.3 Books of Interest ``` Destruction of the Oswald Note FBI agent James Hosty, who admitted destroying a note Lee Harvey Oswald had dropped off at the Dallas FBI office days prior to the JFK assassination. In 1975, the allegation surfaced that the FBI had destroyed a note delivered to it by Lee Harvey Oswald, just one or two weeks prior to the assassination of President Kennedy. An internal FBI investigation failed to find any records relating to this, but interviews of Dallas Field Office personnel established that an Oswald visit and note dropoff had occurred. The House Judiciary Committee heard testimony from several relevant witnesses, as did the contemporaneous Church Committee. The results of this were: ``` * Oswald definitely did visit the Dallas Field Office a week to two weeks prior to the assassination, looking for Agent Hosty, who had recently visited his wife Marina. * When told that Hosty was not in, Oswald left a note in an envelope which was unsealed. * The note contained some sort of threat, but accounts varied widely as to whether Oswald threatened to "blow up the FBI" or merely "report this to higher authorities." * Within hours after Oswald's murder on 24 Nov 1963, Hosty destroyed the note and a memorandum which Special-Agent-in-Charge Gordon Shanklin had ordered written on November 22. ``` Hosty maintained that Shanklin, the head of hte Dallas Field Office, had ordered him to destroy the note. Shanklin denied ever having heard of the note until 1975, though Assistant Director William Sullivan did recall the incident. The House Select Committee on Assassinations reviewed the incident and did not find Shanklin’s denial credible. The movie JFK added a new twist based on rumors which have never been substantiated. In the film, New Orleans DA Jim Garrison wonders why the FBI would destroy a note which would tend to confirm Oswald’s violent character, and presents his staff with an alternative: “This is just speculation, people, but what if the note was describing the assassination attempt on JFK?” My point, Mr. Ekers, was simply that Gordon Shanklin wanted to spare the F.B.I. and himself a great deal of grief and, thus, had Hosty destroy the note. Hopefully, I have stated my point more clearly in this post but I somehow feel I will hear about it if I have not. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/87 "2011-01-28T04:09:02Z")
Well, now we’re talking. Hosty (apparently) admitted to destroying the note. I looked into it. The contents of the note have no bearing on the assassination, except possibly in the larger sense that Oswald’s irritation with the FBI was part of his general irritation with the federal government. It’s a mildly interesting minor element in the story which if anything just reinforces the Oswald-was-a-nut meme. I’m not sure of the relevance to the assassination. ---
**Author:** ![Klondike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/41988e/32.png) [@Klondike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klondike)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/88 "2011-01-28T04:32:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, now we’re talking. Hosty (apparently) admitted to destroying the note. I looked into it. The contents of the note have no bearing on the assassination, except possibly in the larger sense that Oswald’s irritation with the FBI was part of his general irritation with the federal government. > > It’s a mildly interesting minor element in the story which if anything just reinforces the Oswald-was-a-nut meme. I’m not sure of the relevance to the assassination. Thanks, Bryan. For years I was a bona fide CT. Dating back to the very day itself, at the age of 7, while glued to the t.v. for the entire weekend watching the events unfold and hearing my father, mother and their friends speculate as to what might have happened; especially after Jack Ruby killed LHO. In the last few years I decided to look at the other side of the equation and, low and behold, I’ve come to the conclusion that LHO was indeed a lone nut. But, may I state that I do not hold the belief that anyone who adheres to the CT is also nuts. As for relevance to the assassination: Shanklin ordering Hosty to destroy the note helps to expose the mindset at the time (cover our assess) rather than a cover up or something even more sinister which could fan the flames of conspiracy. Only hope I’ve made myself somewhat clearer. ---
**Author:** ![Klondike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/41988e/32.png) [@Klondike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klondike)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/89 "2011-01-28T04:38:20Z")
More to the question in this thread, I doubt LHO had an escape planned or even gave it much thought prior to the event. Judging by his actions he was in sheer panic mode. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/90 "2011-01-28T05:12:28Z")
> [@Klondike](#): > > But, may I state that I do not hold the belief that anyone who adheres to the CT is also nuts. Nuts? No. Lazy, maybe. Credulous. Suckers. The ones starting the theories may be nuts, but their devout followers, readers and website-visitors are just dumb. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/91 "2011-01-28T14:37:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I hadn’t heard that - do you have a cite? > > Regards, > Shodan No but I followed the statement with an “IIRC.” So even if it isn’t factually correct, I did qualify it and while that might not satisfy you, it suits me. I have a vague recollection of a story to that effect in one of the Dallas newspapers published at the time and that’s it. I do recall that a lot of people donated a lot of money to her but I don’t have a cite for that either. For that matter, I don’t have a cite that Tippett left a widow when he died. But I’m satisfied that he did and that she did receive a lot of money in the form of donations. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/92 "2011-01-28T14:51:44Z")
Okay, I was mistaken about the amount donated to JD Tippet’s widow. I also misspelled “Tippet” in that I spelled it Tippett; it is actually Tippet. Per Wikipedia, the amount donated was $647, 579; Wikipedia notes that amount would have equaled $4.5 million in 1969. My apologies to all. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/93 "2011-01-28T15:12:35Z")
I wish we had a “non-confrontational” smiley. It was a genuine request for a cite, because I didn’t know, not that I wanted to show you up. I remember reading an article in _Life_ magazine many, many years ago about the “Two Forgotten Widows” that referred to Ms. Tippett and Ms. Oswald, and even as a youngster seeing the inequity of all the attention paid to Jackie and (apparently) so much less to Tippett’s widow. She lost a husband just as much as anyone else. However unfair, it is harder to be sympathetic to Oswald’s widow, even if she had nothing to do with the crime. Thanks to **Gray Ghos** t for the cites, and my apologies if I came across as rude. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016/94 "2011-01-28T17:46:17Z")
**Shodan** , if you are apologizing to me, it isn’t necessary. It is I who should be apologizing to you as I was more defensive than was called for. I was mistaken about the amount of money the widow Tippet received in donations and you were within your rights to ask for a cite; actually, you asked if I had a cite and I didn’t immediately although I found one. I tend to rely on my memory more than I should especially since all the evidence says that I shouldn’t. I really shouldn’t post in GD simply for that reason. Again, my apologies to all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-an-escape-plan/540016.md?page=4)