# Did McCain make up the "cross in the dirt" POW story? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455 "2008-08-18T18:27:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/21 "2008-08-18T20:48:43Z")
Well, that’s that. Moral high ground: Lost. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/22 "2008-08-18T20:56:36Z")
I’m being facetious, folks. But his changing of his war stories does make me respect him less. he had a perfectly honorable narrative the way it was. He doesn’t have to embellish. ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/23 "2008-08-18T20:58:06Z")
Dio, to borrow a phrase of yours that you broadbrushed other posters with when they made the jump from “John Edwards meets hussy at a hotel in the wee hours of the morning, alone” to “John Edwards was banging hussy”… you’re just engaging in wild speculation. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/24 "2008-08-18T21:25:42Z")
Maybe not the best example… ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/25 "2008-08-18T21:25:56Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I bet he sang like a little choir girl under interrogation and served enthusiastically as a fuck boy for the guards. [/QUOTE] I think that’s quite beyond the pale. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/26 "2008-08-18T21:31:48Z")
[QUOTE=dre2xl] Dio, to borrow a phrase of yours that you broadbrushed other posters with when they made the jump from “John Edwards meets hussy at a hotel in the wee hours of the morning, alone” to “John Edwards was banging hussy”… you’re just engaging in wild speculation. [/QUOTE] I’m engaging in skepticism about changing stories. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/27 "2008-08-18T21:33:41Z")
You know, when I go down to the VFW hall, I hear lots of stories told. And lots of them are what we called “sea stories” in the Navy - stories whose truth is found in a plane besides the literal one, so to speak. Now, I have no way of knowing whether this is a sea story - and neither do any of you. Did John McCain engage in religious activity in the POW camps? That’s undeniably true - he states that his faith helped him, other prisoners there engaged in services with him and had similar experiences, and many of them remember McCain remembering large quantities of the Book of Common Prayer and some Scripture verbatim. If they remembered things wildly at odds with the guard story then I think we could more easily call BS on the whole thing. I think it is necessary to call politicians on their “sea stories” if we have proof. I’m not even above questioning their stories in the absence of it. But sometimes you can’t know for sure. And in the face of the available other evidence that McCain can point to to bolster his claims of this time period (which do not support **Diogenes’** wild claims, needless to say) a politician would be a fool to chase this. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/28 "2008-08-18T21:41:40Z")
If he was sitting around telling stories at the VFW, I wouldn’t question them. When he appears to be making up stories to pander for votes, then it’s fair to question his honesty ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/29 "2008-08-18T21:59:52Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] “My friends, Senator Obama would have you believe that there wasn’t any dirt on the floor on the prison cell I spent five long years in, and maybe that my prison guard was unaware of my devout Christianity. How does Senator Obama come to know this? I’m sure he wasn’t there, never saw or spoke to the guard I told you all about last Christmas-time. Maybe Senator Obama’s just naive. Maybe he says he believes what’s convenient, or politically expedient for him to say. Maybe he’s simply misunderstanding my simple story’s meaning, as he misunderstands so much about the complicated world we all live in. I don’t know, my friends. I simply do not know which explanation fits the best, but I do know this–I suffered in prison for all those years and I persevered, because of my faith in Jesus and my love of the American flag, which Senator Obama, a well-intentioned and good-hearted young man, never had to do. I’m John McCain and I approve this message.” [/QUOTE] 😃 Nice. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/30 "2008-08-18T22:30:32Z")
[The McCain campaign response.](http://www.johnmccain.com/mccainreport/Read.aspx?guid=181471d0-5456-4434-9f78-2f30ffc39459) ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/31 "2008-08-18T22:38:11Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] [The McCain campaign response.](http://www.johnmccain.com/mccainreport/Read.aspx?guid=181471d0-5456-4434-9f78-2f30ffc39459) [/QUOTE] “It may be typical of the pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd to disparage a fellow countryman’s memory of war from the comfort of mom’s basement…” Wow, he forgot about walking uphill in bare feet in a snowstorm both ways… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/32 "2008-08-18T22:39:37Z")
God, the McCain campaign is nasty. Even nastier than Bush I thought they weren’t going to do that. I guess they’re sensitive when their guy gets busted for making up stories. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/33 "2008-08-18T22:40:21Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] [The McCain campaign response.](http://www.johnmccain.com/mccainreport/Read.aspx?guid=181471d0-5456-4434-9f78-2f30ffc39459) [/QUOTE] The “pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd”? ---
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/34 "2008-08-18T22:40:42Z")
[QUOTE=ArchiveGuy] “It may be typical of the pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd to disparage a fellow countryman’s memory of war from the comfort of mom’s basement…” Wow, he forgot about walking uphill in bare feet in a snowstorm both ways… [/QUOTE] Wait… what? Pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd? What the heck does that have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/35 "2008-08-18T22:50:17Z")
They’re trying to say that anyone who supports Obama is a basement dwelling loser who has never served in the military. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/36 "2008-08-18T22:50:28Z")
I’ll start off by saying I’m a McCain guy, so you McCain haters can ignore the rest of this… Without any direct proof of lying I’m of the opinion that speculation is stupid. He _could_ have made it up but I _could_ have flying monkeys at home. I put this in the same category as the “Swiftboat” controversy (which I also thought was pointless): people will believe anything negative about the “other guy”. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/37 "2008-08-18T22:54:00Z")
[QUOTE=Deeg] I’ll start off by saying I’m a McCain guy, so you McCain haters can ignore the rest of this… Without any direct proof of lying I’m of the opinion that speculation is stupid. He _could_ have made it up but I _could_ have flying monkeys at home. I put this in the same category as the “Swiftboat” controversy (which I also thought was pointless): people will believe anything negative about the “other guy”. [/QUOTE] What’s the advantage to you in saying falsely that you have a houseful of flying monkeys? I know what the advantage to McCain in making up shit is. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/38 "2008-08-18T22:54:37Z")
I would have never thought question it if he hadn’t changed his Green Bay Packers story. I still think his cross glurge story _might_ be true, but I’m not convinced that his word is reliable anymore. Espcially since he’s altered details about it. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/39 "2008-08-18T23:01:25Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] They’re trying to say that anyone who supports Obama is a basement dwelling loser who has never served in the military. [/QUOTE] Well I remember you said you were in the military. Hmmmm… 😃 I give McCain the same lattitude. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455/40 "2008-08-18T23:05:11Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] I know what the advantage to McCain in making up shit is. [/QUOTE] If you have proof that McCain lied then by all means hammer him. All I’ve seen so far is speculation; coming up with a reason why he might lie is not proof. It’s the same shaky stuff that the Swiftboat Veterans were hitting Kerry with. I see a parallel with the Obama/Communist thread: it is easy to believe inane accusations against those who have different political opinions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-mccain-make-up-the-cross-in-the-dirt-pow-story/460455.md?page=3)