# Did Murdoch walk into Obamatrap? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 19, 2011, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553 "2011-07-19T06:50:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/41 "2011-07-19T14:01:05Z")
According to [his answers at the live committee hearing](http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=8910), Murdoch didn’t have a clue about anything ever in his organisation, particularly not criminal behaviour. So there you go. ETA **Bricker** , according to the Parliamentary Committee, Rupert M was “responsible for corporate governance” throughout the entire organisation. Not sure of the niceties of UK corporate law to back this up, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/42 "2011-07-19T14:08:31Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > Maybe Obama is just about the smartest politician in the world. Can’t argue with the fact that he’s come a long way in a short time. > > The Murdoch scandal has been brewing for about 3 years. Yet, during the summer (down news time when the media is looking for a single easy story) this trap springs. This is almost like the O.J. Simpson highway chase. > > As we get closer to the election cycle and we are in a down news cycle this thing breaks like a rabbit stepping into a bear trap. As we get closer to the election there is the potential for more indictments and more depth to the scandal. Maybe Americans cant get excited about hacking of a teenage Brit but hacking of 9-11 victims is a different thing. > > I’m not making any excuses for Murdoch. He should have been in jail a long time ago. He’s the definition of sleaze. I’m just wondering if the Obama guys let him set himself up and sprung the trap. Right now the FBI has a ton of evidence that News Corp. was in violation of Federal laws. There’s no reason for Obama to call off the dogs. > > Maybe Obama is a lot smarter than most people wanted to give him credit for. Maybe his biggest adversary just got hooked and is being landed. Obama is particularly bright for manipulating this crisis in England. He had 10 people in Rupert’s empire and Scotland Yard fired and they are not even on this continent. Good job Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/43 "2011-07-19T15:08:29Z")
I think Rupert has less to fear from actual criminal prosecution than from his company’s stockholders. They’ve lost, what $8 billion in the last few weeks? It will be interesting to see how long he holds out. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/44 "2011-07-19T15:11:31Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I think Rupert has less to fear from actual criminal prosecution than from his company’s stockholders. They’ve lost, what $8 billion in the last few weeks? It will be interesting to see how long he holds out. IIRC, the Murdoch family owns a controlling share of NewsCorp, so I doubt he’ll be ousted. I guess he might announce his retirement to keep the value of shares up, though. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/45 "2011-07-19T15:27:25Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I like this idea of using “Obama” as a generic prefix for whatever you don’t like. > > “So I was driving my car and I was trying to pass this Obamagranny and I got an Obamaticket! I had to go to Obamacourt and pay an Obamafine. The Obamajudge put an Obamapoint on my Obamarecord. Now I have to go to Traffic Obamaschool.” I don’t like it. It’s doubleplus Obamagood. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/46 "2011-07-19T15:27:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Or any evidence that Murdoch has some guilt in the matter, apart from the general theory that the master is liable for the acts of the servant? So you premise away the case before the trial. Nice. But he hired the people and established the tenor of tabloid journalism. If he had been a serious news person, this crap might not have happened. He is responsible, but the company is large enough for him to hide. But he still is responsible. He set up Foxian ethics and news that pushes a viewpoint rather than reporting the news. In this case, he is more responsible than the regular exec who gets caught. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/47 "2011-07-19T15:33:56Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > IIRC, the Murdoch family owns a controlling share of NewsCorp, so I doubt he’ll be ousted. I guess he might announce his retirement to keep the value of shares up, though. Yeah, I would imagine he’ll be forced out either because of his apparent lack of control (his answers at this morning’s hearing seem to imply he was completely out of touch) or to fend off shareholder lawsuits alleging his mismanagement cost them money. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/48 "2011-07-19T15:48:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, it’s a perfectly valid theory with limits. > > Ordering someone to commit a crime is itself typically a crime. Learning that your company is committing crimes, and not reporting or stopping it, may well be criminal as well. > > But merely mismanaging your organization so as to be unaware that others are committing crimes? Generally NOT a crime itself. I wonder how far this can go. Imagine there is a Mafia boss. He never actually directly orders anyone killed. He does not “know” what specific acts his lieutenants are ordering. He merely expects a certain outcome, indeed demands it, and if people opposed to him have a habit of dying well…he didn’t order it. Is the mafia boss off the hook? A wink and a nod to the actions of his underlings is sufficient to buffer the mafia boss from culpability? Certainly a boss should not be held liable for the actions of an employee here and there. The boss cannot be everywhere and individuals may do stupid things on your behalf. That said the tone of the organization comes from the top. In the case of Murdoch’s news empire these allegations are not new and they are alleged to have been a pervasive practice and not merely the actions of one rogue employee. Can Murdoch shirk responsibility when the corruption was as pervasive as it seems to be? Did he do anything to send the message to his organization that such acts will not be tolerated when they first became apparent? Is being willfully ignorant sufficient insulation? Being Chairman and CEO of an organization does not demand some accountability be laid at his feet? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/49 "2011-07-19T15:58:24Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > “So I was driving my car and I was trying to pass this Obamagranny and I got an Obamaticket! I had to go to Obamacourt and pay an Obamafine. The Obamajudge put an Obamapoint on my Obamarecord. Now I have to go to Traffic Obamaschool.” Son of Obamitch! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/50 "2011-07-19T16:16:04Z")
Somehow that sneaky Kenyan just pied Murdoch at the hearing in the UK. It’s like he’s got super powers or something. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/51 "2011-07-19T16:25:34Z")
I think you mean Obamapied. Obamagards, Jas09 ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/52 "2011-07-19T16:34:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hugh Grant only pawn in game of life. And you get him and a pink hooker pawn in the back of your car when you land on the space. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/53 "2011-07-19T16:34:48Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I think you mean Obamapied. > > Obamagards, > Jas09 Obamaing A! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/54 "2011-07-19T16:36:33Z")
This thread is turning into yet another Obamaing joke thread! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/55 "2011-07-19T16:44:46Z")
Obama, obama, bo-bama Banana-fana fo-fama Fee-fi-mo-mama Obama! (Traditional Kenyan song) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/56 "2011-07-19T16:56:10Z")
Yes. Obama was also behind the Greek austerity riots, the Chinese earthquake, the Japanese victory in the Womens’ World Cup, and the protests in Tunisia. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/57 "2011-07-19T17:10:42Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Yeah, I would imagine he’ll be forced out either because of his apparent lack of control (his answers at this morning’s hearing seem to imply he was completely out of touch) or to fend off shareholder lawsuits alleging his mismanagement cost them money. Can a shareholder sue a corporate executive on the grounds that he’s a poor mamanger and the stock has lost money as a result? I don’t think so, although I’m willing to be educated on the point. A shareholder can sue because of fraud, or illegal activity, or a breach of the fiduciary duty owed to the shareholders, but I don’t believe that extends to simple failure to manage well. Of course, this comment presumes that “shareholder lawsuits” was meant literally and not metaphorically. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/58 "2011-07-19T17:12:09Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I wonder how far this can go. > > Imagine there is a Mafia boss. He never actually directly orders anyone killed. He does not “know” what specific acts his lieutenants are ordering. He merely expects a certain outcome, indeed demands it, and if people opposed to him have a habit of dying well…he didn’t order it. Is the mafia boss off the hook? A wink and a nod to the actions of his underlings is sufficient to buffer the mafia boss from culpability? > > Certainly a boss should not be held liable for the actions of an employee here and there. The boss cannot be everywhere and individuals may do stupid things on your behalf. That said the tone of the organization comes from the top. > > In the case of Murdoch’s news empire these allegations are not new and they are alleged to have been a pervasive practice and not merely the actions of one rogue employee. Can Murdoch shirk responsibility when the corruption was as pervasive as it seems to be? Did he do anything to send the message to his organization that such acts will not be tolerated when they first became apparent? Is being willfully ignorant sufficient insulation? Being Chairman and CEO of an organization does not demand some accountability be laid at his feet? If I thought that you (a) had a genuine interest in the answer, and (b) would believe me when I gave the answer I would answer this question. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/59 "2011-07-19T17:20:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Can a shareholder sue a corporate executive on the grounds that he’s a poor mamanger and the stock has lost money as a result? > > I don’t think so, although I’m willing to be educated on the point. A shareholder can sue because of fraud, or illegal activity, or a breach of the fiduciary duty owed to the shareholders, but I don’t believe that extends to simple failure to manage well. > > Of course, this comment presumes that “shareholder lawsuits” was meant literally and not metaphorically. I believe so, depending on what you mean by “poor manager” - I was including “breach of fiduciary duty” in there. There is already one suit filed: [http://mediamatters.org/blog/201107110018](http://mediamatters.org/blog/201107110018) I’m merely a layperson in these matters, but I know I’ve heard of similar suits in the past. It is rather tricky to get a decision in your favor, because you have to be able to show that the business decision was bad at the time it was made, not merely in hindsight, IIRC. I just think that the threat of litigation at a larger scale might be enough to push Rupert into retirement. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553/60 "2011-07-19T17:32:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If I thought that you > > (a) had a genuine interest in the answer, and > (b) would believe me when I gave the answer > > I would answer this question. Ok, in general, to what extent would Murdoch be civilly or criminally responsible for the acts of his managers which cannot be established as authorized? Does it matter if the acts are clearly prohibited or simply not approved? You could limit it to US law, since it might be difficult to answer for all the jurisdictions where Murdoch does business. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-murdoch-walk-into-obamatrap/589553.md?page=4)