# Did nice really formerly mean accurate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 1, 2005, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nice-really-formerly-mean-accurate/315107 "2005-08-01T07:14:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nice-really-formerly-mean-accurate/315107/1 "2005-08-01T07:14:09Z")
In _Good Omens_ by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman, it is asserted that the word nice meant (back in the time of witch burnings, so 1600s, maybe?) accurate or precise. Is that true? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nice-really-formerly-mean-accurate/315107/2 "2005-08-01T07:41:31Z")
IMO there is no better discussion of the word “nice” than that [offered by Henry Tilney](http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk_files=35170&pageno=63) in Jane Austen’s _Northanger Abbey_, written in 1803: > [@](#): > > “But now really, do not you think Udolpho the nicest book in the world?” > > “The nicest – by which I suppose you mean the neatest. That must depend upon the binding.” > > “Henry,” said Miss Tilney, “you are very impertinent. Miss Morland, he is treating you exactly as he does his sister. He is forever finding fault with me, for some incorrectness of language, and now he is taking the same liberty with you. The word ‘nicest,’ as you used it, did not suit him; and you had better change it as soon as you can, or we shall be overpowered with Johnson and Blair all the rest of the way.” > > “I am sure,” cried Catherine, “I did not mean to say anything wrong; but it is a nice book, and why should not I call it so?” > > “Very true,” said Henry, “and this is a very nice day, and we are taking a very nice walk, and you are two very nice young ladies. Oh! It is a very nice word indeed! It does for everything. Originally perhaps it was applied only to express neatness, propriety, delicacy, or refinement – people were nice in their dress, in their sentiments, or their choice. But now every commendation on every subject is comprised in that one word.” > > “While, in fact,” cried his sister, “it ought only to be applied to you, without any commendation at all. You are more nice than wise. Come, Miss Morland, let us leave him to meditate over our faults in the utmost propriety of diction, while we praise Udolpho in whatever terms we like best.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nice-really-formerly-mean-accurate/315107/3 "2005-08-01T07:49:45Z")
Oh, and we still preserve the original sense of “nice” in one or two idioms such as “a nice distinction”, meaning a subtle or fine distinguishing of things that often get lumped together. [E.g.](http://www.math.niu.edu/~rusin/known-math/00_incoming/sylver): > [@](#): > > My musing began when Keith Ramsay made a nice distinction between _construcive_ solutions to math questions, and _explicit_ solutions. For the most part, the latter are special cases of the former, whereby you actually _produce_ a “closed formula” (whatever that may be in context). Whereas a constructive solution need only be a recipe whereby you can show that you could _get_ an explicit solution if you wanted to. It seems to me that the distinction between explicit and constructive is a good one. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nice-really-formerly-mean-accurate/315107/4 "2005-08-01T08:00:31Z")
And, of course, the original meaning of nice was foolish, from the Latin nescius, ignorant. (Compare the modern word from the same root, _nescience_.) ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nice-really-formerly-mean-accurate/315107/5 "2005-08-01T08:00:37Z")
The Oxford English Dictionary gives a ton of former meanings to “nice.” In addition to “precise” there’s: foolish, wanton, showy, finely dressed/elegant, fussy/difficult to please, refined/cultured, Fastidious in matters of literary taste or style, virtuous, proper/in good taste, faint-hearted/cowardly/unmanly, lazy/sluggish, tender/fragile, pampered/luxurious, rare/extraordinary, shy/coy, demanding close consideration, subtle, thin/unsubstantial, trivial, sensitive/acute (of senses), dextrous, discriminative of judgment, doubtful, requiring tact… And much much more! What a busy word. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nice-really-formerly-mean-accurate/315107/6 "2005-08-01T14:38:30Z")
This reminds me of a conversation I had regarding the word **thorough**. We were looking at someone’s resume and the woman next to me commented, “Wow, he’s very thorough, isn’t he?” I was mystified as to how she could tell he was _thorough_ just by looking at the resume. When I asked how she could tell, she thought I was criticizing the person who was subject of the resume. It got very uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nice-really-formerly-mean-accurate/315107/7 "2005-08-01T14:59:26Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > This reminds me of a conversation I had regarding the word **thorough**. > > We were looking at someone’s resume and the woman next to me commented, “Wow, he’s very thorough, isn’t he?” > > I was mystified as to how she could tell he was _thorough_ just by looking at the resume. When I asked how she could tell, she thought I was criticizing the person who was subject of the resume. It got very uncomfortable. I’m not sure what you mean here. In the sense that I know the word, and given the situation, I would assume that the woman meant he was very detailed and specific in his resume. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nice-really-formerly-mean-accurate/315107/8 "2005-08-01T15:28:59Z")
There’s also the phrase " a nice point of law " meaning an issue that raises some interesting points that could be argued either way. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nice-really-formerly-mean-accurate/315107/9 "2005-08-01T15:36:56Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean here. In the sense that I know the word, and given the situation, I would assume that the woman meant he was very detailed and specific in his resume. That’s the problem … it was clearly not what she meant. Besides the fact that it was not a particularly detailed resume – just your standard summary of education and experience – from what I gathered, she meant something like “He has very impressive experience” or something like that. I wondered if it was some kind of usage specific to African-American vernacular. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nice-really-formerly-mean-accurate/315107/10 "2005-08-02T15:02:38Z")
After his victory at the Battle of Waterloo Wellington is quoted as saying (bolding mine) _“It has been a damned serious business - Blücher and I have lost 30,000 men. It has been **a damned nice thing** - the nearest run thing you ever saw in your life…By God! I don’t think it would have done if I had not been there.”_ Make of that what you will. ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nice-really-formerly-mean-accurate/315107/11 "2005-08-02T15:14:17Z")
Kasper Gutman to Sam Spade in _The Maltese Falcon_: “Quite frankly sir, I’d like to have you along. You’re a man of nice judgment and many resources.” In that context, “nice” seems to mean discerning rather than pleasing. And in my dictionary, the third definition given for “nice” is, "characterized by or requiring great accuracy, precision, skill or delicacy: _nice workmanship_. So it _still_ means accurate! ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-nice-really-formerly-mean-accurate/315107/12 "2005-08-02T15:46:34Z")
I love learning archaic definitions of words. One of my favorites is ‘silly’, which of course means foolish or lacking good sense. But it came to that definition after originally meaning ‘blessed’ or ‘innocent’ in Middle English. So if you call someone’s religion ‘silly’, you’re praising it?